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Inside Edition: Former Player Looks Back to the Beginning of the Georgetown-Syracuse Rivalry

Former John Thompson Jr. player "Bashful" takes a look back to the beginning of the Georgetown-Syracuse Rivalry:

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Like any red-blooded Hoya, the thought of that team dressed in Orange incites me now. But as a veteran of the Hoya Program from the 1970s, I have to say it wasn't really a rivalry back then, but had great potential. Now, with the Big East membership of Syracuse fast approaching an end it might be worthwhile to reflect on that rivalry from when it began-in the 1970s.

A look back after The Jump:

Star-divide

The first time GU played the then named Orangemen in that decade and the only time during my years at Georgetown, was in 1974 at the Kodak Christmas tournament in Rochester, New York. Rochester is not the greatest place to spend the week between Christmas and New Years but if you like basketball, it did provide some good games back in the day. The 1974-1975 version of the Orangemen were a good team that eventually made it to the Final Four in San Diego-the first Final Four in the school's history. But like a precursor to future disappointments for Syracuse, their schedule included a game with a then unheralded catholic school from DC in the opening round of a Christmas tournament in upstate NY that they were supposed to roll through.

Unfortunately for the Orangemen, that little known Hoyas team was on its way to its first NCAA tournament bid since 1943. The Syracuse team was led by 6'9" senior Rudy Hackett, a lightning fast point guard named Bug Williams and a good shooter named Jimmy Lee. They also had a large center named Ernie Siebert and let's just say that the adjective large may be kind to Ernie, who at 6'9" was listed at 260 lbs but looked like he was a lot heavier than that. Georgetown at the time was both tall-for the 1970s and for now. The front line was Merlin Wilson (6'9"), Bill Lynn (6'11"), and Ed Hopkins (6'9"). The backcourt had Jon Smith and Derrick Jackson, both who were offensive powerhouses, and one of the better defensive guards in GU history, Mike Riley. What ensued was a terrific game in which the Hoyas used their quickness, size and a great press to offset the hometown refereeing and take home a 71-70 Christmas present against the Orangemen.

There were three other games in the 1970s against Syracuse that helped the rivalry flourish - and all were Hoya wins. In 1979, the last season of our membership in the ECAC format of playoffs, the Hoyas beat the Orangemen, then ranked 6th in the country at the time, in the ECAC Upstate/South final to get the NCAA tournament bid at the Cole Field House, 66-58. The next year was the opening year of the Big East conference. What a year for college basketball and for Georgetown. For Syracuse, not so much. First the Hoyas knocked off their rivals (ranked #2) in the last game at Manley Field House, 52-50 in February. Then they took the first Big East tournament championship from the then # 3 ranked Orangemen 87-81 in Providence.

The 70s laid a great foundation for the rivalry over the next 30+ years. But now unfortunately due to Orange chasing green, it is either ending or reverting to a 1970s-and-before mode. Sure, we may get the occasional non-league games, but they will lack the punch of regular conference combat. The game on Wednesday night in the Carrier Dome will be tough. This version of Orange is a team that is equally as tall as ours and has more experience. But if history can inspire the Hoyas to beat a highly ranked and regarded Syracuse team, they need look no further than the Hoya squads of JT Jr. in the 1970s!

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Aw I was waiting for the punchline

in which John Thompson pronounces, “Manley Field House is officially closed.” That’s the best part of this great bedtime story!

by JabrilTrawick'sInstagrams on Feb 6, 2012 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

Nice article

you don’t hear much about the games before the Manley Field House is officially closed game.

by hoyasincebirth on Feb 6, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

agreed

growing up i remember the 80s and up, so this perspective is a valuable one.

Casually.

by CasualHoya on Feb 6, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't want to know

about the Hoyas in the mid-1960’s, when I was there. We gave our first athletic scholarship to an African-American (Bernie White) in 1964!

by DrTox on Feb 7, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions  

with hate week underway...

Can we all make a unilateral blog decision to ignore long trolling cuse posts?

Trying to correct their feeble logic and erroneous arguments might seem tempting, but its like trying to teach an average monkey sign language: you can see that tiny glimmer of intelligence in its eyes, but you need to come to grips with the fact that it is subhuman in nature, and will never truly learn.

by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Feb 6, 2012 4:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

While that's usually a good rule

There’s some acceptable smack talk going on in that “Things that make me happy” thread that a Cuse fan posted.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

dukepettyjohn

proving my point about subhuman intelligence below.

by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Feb 6, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The Syracuse loving Mrs. BBFITB to be and I got a very casual G'town/Cuse cornhole set this weekend

Was a gift at her bridal shower from some of her friends and is pretty badass actually. If I had any idea how to upload a picture from my iPhone on this site, I’d document accordingly. Anybody that actually paid attention in M.I.S, hook a brother up.

Between what I’m afraid will happen on Wednesday night and my casual “stag-do” coming up this weekend at the Hard Rock with the Crue, I’m not so sure as to the next time I’ll actually speak with her, if ever. So she’ll at least have this cornhole set to remember me by. As will, hopefully, all of you.

"Before the answer was a 3, I was down in Georgetown with a Hoya chick, lawyer chick....."

by brandonbowmansfootistoobig on Feb 6, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

Cornhole is the best

I made a sweet Gtown set of boards by hand a couple years back, and bought blue/grey bags to go with it. Then my friends and I were enjoying a few beverages while playing in a Burleith alley, and we forgot to take the set inside when we left, and it disappeared. Pretty sure the cranky Burleith neighbors took it. Tragic.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Man I hate Syracuse Fans!

They are the worst people in the world.

Their ignorance is so infuriating.

They’re still super pissed about the Gray Out last year. They cannot get it through their thick heads that there was nothing wrong with this practice, nor were they the team that we employed it on first. We did it first against Duke. We did it for Nova this year(although not to the same extent.)

Do not read their message boards their stupidity will just piss you off. They’re stupider than Fab Melo.

by hoyasincebirth on Feb 6, 2012 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

Could Bashful possibly be...

Craig Esherick? Former JT2 player- states that he was at Georgetown in the ‘74-’75 season. Taking a quick look at the HoyaSaxa.com roster for that year:

10 Craig Esherick
12 Mike Riley
14 Bill Lynn
20 Emmet Fitzgerald
22 Derrick Jackson
24 Bill Thomas
30 Jonathan Smith
32 Larry Long
34 Mike MacDermott
40 Greg Brooks
42 Felix Yeoman
44 Merlin Wilson
52 Ed Hopkins

by ScreamingHoya on Feb 6, 2012 5:47 PM EST reply actions  

If so

One could say that CasualHoya Hire[d] Esherick

What are these assertions!?

by DHB Enterprises on Feb 6, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If Syracuse schadenfruede is your thing

This is the shortest, most satisfying tidbit you’ll read today.

"Basketball fights last two punches. Make sure you throw both of them." - John Thompson Jr.
Repping the SB Nation Product Team as Product Manager
Like SB Nation on Facebook and follow @SBNation and @SBNProductTeam on Twitter

by Chris Haines on Feb 6, 2012 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

what's your point?

Jonny Flynn is just another in a long line of underperforming Cuse pros … he’s the NBA’s equivalent of Kid Ray.

AI is nearing 37 years old, was an 11-time All-Star, MVP, multi-season scoring champ….not sure what jonny flynn sucking has to do with AI trying to make some cash at the end of his illustrious career. But that is Syracuse logic for you.

by Brasky on Feb 6, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If Johnny Flynn is getting offers from anywhere

at 37, then we can talk about these stories in parallel. At Flynn’s age, if Iverson was on the market, every team in basketball would’ve wanted him.

"Basketball fights last two punches. Make sure you throw both of them." - John Thompson Jr.
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by Chris Haines on Feb 6, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

We're talking about Allen Iverson here. Not exactly the model for Georgetown's academic superiority.

Dude struggles to put a complete sentence together.

“We talkin’ ’bout practice.”

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Crafty redirection of the discussion

from basketball ability to intellect, since we all know Flynn is no Iverson.

Is Jonny Flynn a paragon of academia? Honest attempt to get beyond my assumptions about the players and students of your fine Canadian university, since I have no idea what he is like as a person.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Iverson was a great player. Flynn isn't on Iverson's level.

I’m not debating that. You, or rather another Hoya fan, thought it was funny that the Lakers and Knicks wanted to acquire Flynn. I don’t see how that negatively reflects on Flynn’s basketball abilities.

As for Iverson, I found it humorous that a former NBA MVP and convicted felon who made tens of millions of dollars in the NBA was at the point in his life where he had to go play in Puerto Rico to make money.

I don’t know how intelligent Jonny Flynn. Just like I don’t know how intelligent Allen Iverson is. I do know that Jonny Flynn is more articulate than Allen Iverson.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a bit of a leap in reading comprehension

so follow me closely here:

Lakers and Knicks are playoff teams. These teams, who are styled as contenders for the NBA championship, are facing such a dearth of available talent at the PG position that they are looking to acquire a guy who averages some three points, one rebound, and two assists per game.

And he’s a Cuse alum! /rimshot

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

relevant excerpt:

The Syracuse men’s basketball team scored a 912 on the most recent APR. The NCAA’s cutline is 925. Colorado was the only other major conference school with a men’s basketball program under the NCAA’s minimum. Colorado’s football program also failed to meet the APR’s standard.

Syracuse’s poor academic performance came mainly as a result of three players; Jonny Flynn, Eric Devendorf and Paul Harris, leaving the school after the 2008-09 season despite having eligibility remaining. Schools lose points when student-athletes leave school in poor academic standing.

by Brasky on Feb 6, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, don't own that

It’s his bad, again:

Schools lose points when student-athletes leave school in poor academic standing.

Emphasis mine, to make it easy on you.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Draft entry deadline is in mid April.

If you enter the draft, you can either go to workout for teams or finish the spring semester. They did not finish the spring semester.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point

If that’s the reason for his poor standing, then I retract that particular bit of snark. Don’t really have a way to look into that, though.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Weird

So how do players that go pro EVER graduate college using your logic?

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

They go back and finish in the summer generally.

Or in UConn’s case, you give Kemba Walker internship credits for going to training camp.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe true of schools like Syracuse and UConn. But at Georgetown, when you leave as a senior, you have your diploma and have accumulated all your necessary credits.

ie. Freeman and Wright – both of whom participated in camps AND still graduated on time as seniors.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

But that’s the question:

If what you’re saying is correct, that most players who want to workout for NBA teams don’t go to class, then there shouldn’t be a difference between seniors, juniors and sophomores. Senior wouldn’t graduate because they wouldn’t finish their last quarter/semester of school. Juniors/Sophomores wouldn’t be eligible to become seniors/juniors.

My point is that this isn’t a general problem. It is a problem for schools who have players that care more about themselves than the program. Players that couldn’t be bothered to attend class after making the decision they were leaving, despite the ramifications on the program. And that is a reflection of the head coach.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to make a distinction with seniors though.

They do not have to enter by the mid April deadline. They do not have a three week window to workout with team’s and decide whether to stay in the draft. So they are able to finish out the semester and graduate.

The main issue is that the three week period encompasses the weeks leading up and during finals for most schools. Underclassmen who want to workout with as many teams prior to the withdrawal deadline often sacrifice academics to get reviews from NBA teams.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair. But then players that withdraw from the draft and return to school wouldn’t be eligible to play the next year.

I get taking summer classes but most players do that anyway.

Alright this has been exhausted. Cuse sucks.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Your argument has some merit

But players leave early from lots of schools, and not all of them have terrible APRs. That means that some of these kids (presumably, a lot of them) enter the draft, go to camps, but still manage to finish out the spring semester.

What are these assertions!?

by DHB Enterprises on Feb 6, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but Syracuse had 4 in two seasons.

Plus a guy who quit the team a semester short of graduating.

Losing 1 or even 2 guys who don’t finish the semester won’t tank your APR. It takes multiple years with multiple guys leaving early to do it.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

wrong. players leave but aren't in poor standing frequently

from lots of schools. Syracuse doesn’t have a uniquely large number of early entrants (see: UK, UNC for example).

at other schools, they either finish the spring semester, or set up their schedules so that they wouldn’t hurt the school’s API like that. ‘Cuse players didn’t.

by thejerseytornado on Feb 6, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Jeff Green an Dajuan Summers

Both left Georgetown Early and both left in good academic standing finishing out their semesters of work. Stop making excuses.

YOU CAN’T SPELL SUCKS! WITHOUT SU!

Syracuse sucks always! I would call Syracuse fans human garbage but I’m not sure they’re human.

by hoyasincebirth on Feb 6, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Hollis?

He’s graduating early. And not from “the Harvard of Central New York”.

by DrTox on Feb 7, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that shows that he is dumb

Rather it shows the type of respect Syracuse players have for the program and coach.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps.

Although with the randomness of the withdrawal date for the NBA Draft, players are basically forced to choose either to workout with teams or finish the semester academically.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

If that were the case, why are Cuse and Colorado the only schools to get docked scholarships? Not like either are sending 5 players to the NBA every year.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

3 guys left early that year.

Donte Greene left early the year before. And Josh Wright quit the team a semester short of graduating the year before because he’s an idiot.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Point of procedural inquiry

Is the argument over when we hit the event horizon and can only fit a single character in the reply box?

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds about right.

Or we can start another topic below about how you have some of the most fair-weather fans in the whole conference

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Not thrilled about that

Kind of boils down to the fact that Georgetown draws a more diverse student body then Cuse. Tough to pack a house when the majority of your alumni are well outside the metro area of your arena.

Feel like we’ve had these chats before?

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Georgetown has enough alums in the DMV area to fill the phone booth 3 times over

There’s no excuse for us to take it over every year (except when you sabotage our ticket buying abilities).

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I lived in DC for 4 years.

I met a lot of Georgetown alums. No specific source. Just a lot of people who didn’t care about their school’s basketball team.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

The late 90's, until JTIII, were a lost time

The young alumni from that era had nothing to get excited about, and winning fans back after graduation isn’t the easiest. Plenty of recent grads do go to the games now. As for the students…well, four of our home Big East games were over Christmas break. That sucked.

by Hoya Saxual on Feb 6, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is on AI's level?

I can only name a few guys who actually invented a shot, but AI is one of them – the running floater in the lane. The others were George Mikan and Kareem.

I forget who introduced the jump shot in the 1940’s. Pretty sure it was an NBA guy. I know it was before Bob Cousy.

BTW, there a lot of sad stories of pro athletes who couldn’t hang on to their money. The saddest of all were Jim Thorpe (booze), Josh Gibson (depression), and Big Daddy Lipscomb (smack). The Jim Thorpe story is a great, great movie, starring Burt Lancaster, late ‘40-s-early’50’s..

by DrTox on Feb 7, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm perfectly fine...

…with you ’talkin ’bout a player that left Georgetown nearly 17 years ago and happens to be one of the most exciting point guards to ever play the game.

If this is your best rivalry banter then this is going to be a very easy week.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

If your best banter is 17 years dated then I’m going to have to hit snooze and wait for the Nova game to have more fun with opposing fans.

Come on, there’s gotta be more you can play.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

Guess I have to hand it to Syracuse and its Athletic Department for constantly giving opposing fans new material.

Damn Georgetown, its academic integrity and institutional control of athletes.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

what, exactly has Syracuse won since 2003?

Realize you have that on us, but don’t act like you guys are making the second weekend of the NCAA every year. Go make some more t-shirts celebrating pointless bullshit.

"Before the answer was a 3, I was down in Georgetown with a Hoya chick, lawyer chick....."

by brandonbowmansfootistoobig on Feb 6, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Assistant coaches molesting little boys in the carrier dome.

“No worse than NCAA violations after leaving the school”

You heard it here first.

by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Feb 6, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Eek

I worry for you if you think those two are even remotely comparable.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

After this discussion tonight, I think it is fair to state Syracuse has the most embarrassing athletic program in the country. In the past few years, there have been problems with academics, assaults, alleged coverups, and whatever you want to call the Bernie/Laurie Fine stuff.

In the past 5 years, Syracuse has sent the same number of players to the NBA as they have had charged with assaulting female students.

This all is leaving out problems with the football program too. Throw that in and you can add drugs, theft and more assaults to the rap sheet.

Stay proud Oranges.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

shockingly, haven't seen a follow up to this one

Well done

"Before the answer was a 3, I was down in Georgetown with a Hoya chick, lawyer chick....."

by brandonbowmansfootistoobig on Feb 7, 2012 8:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not defending Bernie, at all. Nobody is gonna defend what he did.

But Broadus ran a goddamn prison system up in Binghamton. Internationally-wanted felons, drug dealers, etc.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 7, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Banter is part of thde deal on this blog. Folks who can’t take the heat should play solitaire.

by DrTox on Feb 7, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

bad redirect. poor form and racially problematic.

and dangerously plays too close to the white intellectual superiority form of racism. not a good look at all. further, AI doesn’t have any problems speaking. We talkin’ bout practice is a complete sentence within the black vernacular. If that’s not a legit sentence to you, 95% of basketball players, HS, NCAA, and NBA don’t speak in legit sentences.

also, georgetown’s API is fine. Syracuse’s would have had them miss the NCAA tournament if Duncan’s proposal were accepted.

finally, eric devendorf. trump card played.

by thejerseytornado on Feb 6, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

you spoke about a specific player.

he just called syracuse players as a group dumb.

also, eric devendorf.

by thejerseytornado on Feb 6, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Touche.

And believe it or not, Eric Devendorf was once named a Scholar Athlete at SU.

by DukePettyjohn on Feb 6, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh oh...

You do realize Devendorf never graduated, right?

So Syracuse’s Scholar Athlete never graduated Syracuse.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Feb 6, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

And that was a few minutes ago.

It’s only gotten more bloody since you said that…ouch

by Hoya Saxual on Feb 6, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Embarrassing...

UConn looks dire. I think at this point in the season, this is good for us since 1) we beat Louisville on the road and 2) this UConn team isn’t worth holding out any hope for. No Kemba to save them. Oriakhi is the only one playing with pride.

by El Scorcho! on Feb 6, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Shabazz Napier

What in the hell happened to him? He’s looked awful.

by El Scorcho! on Feb 6, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Too much pressure

trying to live up to that awesome name, probably.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 6, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Glad that's over

If getting berated by some Georgetown students left Calhoun bedridden, he might be in traction after that game

by rochesterhoya07 on Feb 6, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

totally off subject

but, isn’t it a bit ironic that my beloved knicks who are probably dumbest organization in professional basketball started a backcourt tonight with a grad of Harvard, jeremy lin and stanford, Landry Fields.

by sleepyhoya on Feb 6, 2012 9:19 PM EST reply actions  

Tired of hearing Cuse fans talk crap

Can’t freaking wait till Wednesday

by Gtownfan92 on Feb 6, 2012 11:24 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

Pretty sure there's something in the Bible

About smiting hip and thigh. I think that applies here.

by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 7, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Mark 11:14

Something about smiting a fruit tree because it displeased the Lord.

by HoyaSmacksYa on Feb 7, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

he roots for DePaul?

because I know a ‘Cuse fan isn’t calling Georgetown uncompetitive considering we’ve been to the more recent final four and are 3-3 against you in the past 3 years when we were “uncompetitive.”

by thejerseytornado on Feb 7, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

knew i should have gone with marquette

but i’m jewish so I don’t know/care about these details and marquette is similarly competitive this season, so that also makes no sense.

by thejerseytornado on Feb 7, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

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