The Race to the Big East Finish Line
Your Georgetown Hoyas are in a tight conference race. While Louisville's loss to Syracuse Monday night gave the Hoyas a slight lead over the Cardinals, and Wednesday night wins by Notre Dame, South Florida, and Cincinnati further stiffened the competition. All that action has left Georgetown in a tie for fourth place with the Bulls, which the Hoyas already beat.
But with five games left, mobility upward or downward is still a possibility. Second place is within reach, as Georgetown is within a game of both Marquette and Notre Dame, both of which they play in the regular season's last week. A 3-2 finish would leave the Hoyas at 12-6 which, as you'll see below, should give them fourth place and the Big East Tournament double-bye that goes with a top-four finish. But sliding down to fifth or worse, and in turn having to play a day earlier at MSG, also is possible, as South Florida, Louisville, and Cincinnati all would love to snag the double-bye out from under the Hoyas.
So where will the Hoyas finish? Read more after the jump about how this mess might play out, then vote.
Projections
Below you'll see the teams that still appear to be within reach of a double-bye, as well as their projected finish (thanks to the infallible wizard Ken Pomeroy; projections current through Tuesday). As you can see, these projections place the Hoyas in nearly a dead heat with Notre Dame for third place, and are closer to Marquette in second than Louisville in fifth. But as any half-wit failed Big East coach analyst during broadcasts of Hoya games can tell you, games are played on the court, not Pomeroy's spreadsheets, and an unexpected loss could dramatically change the odds.
- Syracuse. Currently: 26-1 (overall), 13-1 (conference). Remaining games: at Rutgers; South Florida; at Connecticut; Louisville. That sound you hear is thousands of soon-to-be-obsolete T-shirts being printed. Projected remaining wins: 3.26. Projected finish: 16.26 wins, 1st place.
- Marquette. Currently: 21-5 (overall), 10-3 (conference). Remaining games: at Connecticut; Rutgers; at West Virginia; at Cincinnati; Georgetown. Marquette is hot, having won 8 of 9, but the closing stretch figures to include some nail-biters. Except for a match-up against Rutgers in which they'll be heavily favored, the Golden Eagles have between a 49 and 57 percent chance of winning their remaining games. Projected finish: 12.89 wins, 3rd place.
- Notre Dame. Currently: 17-8 (overall), 10-3 (conference). Remaining games: at Villanova; West Virginia; at St. John's; at Georgetown; Providence. Mike Brey's team's performance sure looks like smoke and mirrors, but seven straight wins in the conference, including victories over Syracuse and Marquette, are converting skeptics. The Irish's Feb. 27 showdown with your beloved Hoyas looms large. Projected finish: 12.94 wins, 2nd place.
- Georgetown. Currently: 19-5 (overall), 9-4 (conference). Remaining games: at Providence; at Seton Hall; Villanova; Notre Dame; at Marquette. Before the season began, only the most delusional of us would have turned up our noses at 9-4 through 13 conference games. But now that we're here, don't we all want more? Projected finish: 12.5 wins, 4th place.
- South Florida. Currently: 15-10 (overall), 9-4 (conference). Remaining games: at Pittsburgh; at Syracuse; Cincinnati; at Louisville; West Virginia. The Bulls' rout of Villanova kept their charmed run going, but a brutal closing stretch may sink their post-season hopes. Projected finish: 10.55 wins, 7th place.
- Louisville. Currently: 20-6 (overall), 8-5 (conference). Remaining games: at DePaul; at Cincinnati; Pittsburgh; South Florida; at Syracuse. Thanks to six straight wins, the Cards are back in the hunt, but but Monday night's home loss to the Orange, coupled with previous losses to Marquette, Notre Dame, and Georgetown, makes a double-bye much tougher. Projected finish: 11.12 wins, 5th place.
- Cincinnati. Currently: 18-8 (overall), 8-5 (conference). Remaining games: Seton Hall; Louisville; at South Florida; Marquette; at Villanova. The Bearcats beat the Hoyas, and so may have the best chance to pass them, thanks to tiebreakers. But they also have ground to make up, and face a tough three-game stretch against other top-half teams. Projected finish: 10.73 wins, 6th place.
Tie-Breakers
As you may have already protested to your computer screen, the Hoyas won't actually win 12.5 conference games, nor will they finish a fraction behind Marquette or Notre Dame. More likely, two or more teams listed above will end up in a tie; for the Hoyas, such a tie may be at 12-6, with Notre Dame, Louisville, or some other squad. In that case, we'll need to turn to the hallowed Big East tie-breakers, handed down to us by the ancients. The basic gist is that a tie of two teams is broken by those teams' record against one another; if that doesn't do the trick, the tied teams' comparative records against teams placed higher in the standings. Three or more tied teams are grouped into a mini-conference, and the best record against the teams within that group prevails.
In other words, Georgetown's wins over Marquette, South Florida, and Louisville help, while losses to Cincinnati and, to a lesser degree, Syracuse hurt. Remaining games against the Irish and Golden Eagles are extra important, as they not only will shift those teams up or down the standings, but may break any tie that results.
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ND a must
We are all concerned about late season collpase, but D clamps down on ND offence.
JT55iVe has the game of his freshman year and shuts down perimeter shooting in 2nd half. HOYAS win, double bye, Rolling Rocks all around.
has a remarkable command of the obvious ..
"we tryn to win this shit"
I'll see your Rolling Rocks
And punish a sixer of Genny Cream Ale
by TouomouIsMyHomie on Feb 16, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
ND is annoying
Need to keep that awkward, grabbing, slapping, hyper spazz Cooley away from the boards. Looking at you, Nate.
by Jason's Laptop on Feb 16, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Cooley is like Lubick on 'roids...
Even when I watch ND’s games, I still can’t quite figure out how he scores…he is a total spaz but a very effective spaz.
I couldn't care less about success in the Big East Tournament
Whether we go to MSG and lose to Rutgers on Wednesday afternoon or beat Syracuse on Saturday night, this program needs at least one win in the NCAA Tournament to erase the Ghosts of Ohio and VCU Past.
Casually.
We need at least two wins in the Big Dance
Have to live up to our seed this year (assuming we get a 3 or 4 seed) or else it will be viewed as another post season failure.
by Jason's Laptop on Feb 16, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
I think we should just win everything
One game at a time.
by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 16, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
a recently-learned, wikipedia gem
The theatrical release’s ending includes Rachel Phelps, apparently unable to move the team because of increased attendance, angry and disappointed about the team’s success. An alternate ending on the “Wild Thing Edition” DVD shows a very different characterization of Phelps. Lou tenders his resignation and tells Phelps that he can’t in good conscience work for her after she sought to sabotage the team for her own personal gain. Phelps then tells him that, in fact, she loves the Indians and never intended to move them. However, when she inherited the club from her late husband, it was on the brink of bankruptcy. Unable to afford top flight players, she decided to take a chance on unproven players from the lower leagues, whom she personally scouted, and talented older players who were generally considered washed up. She tells Lou that she likewise felt that he was the right manager to bring the ragtag group together.
Phelps made up the Miami scheme and adopted a catty, vindictive persona to unify and motivate the team. As the players believed that she wanted the Indians to fail, she was able to conceal that the team could not afford basic amenities such as chartered jet travel behind a veil of taking them away to spite the players.
Lou does not resign, and Phelps reasserts her authority by saying that if he shares any part of their conversation with anyone, she will fire him.
Producers said that while the twist ending worked as a resolution of the plot, they scrapped it because test screening audiences preferred the Phelps character as a villain.
Whoaaaaaa
Changes everything.
Why so Syracuse?
by HoyaJoker07 on Feb 16, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Test screening audiences are stupid as hell...
…they also sodomized the ending of I Am Legend…
…but somehow allowed Indiana Jones: KotCS to air as filmed…
by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Feb 16, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
For moral purposes
I want some revenge send-off wins against WVU/Pitt/Cuse. If we finish strong in the regular season, we’re not going to be playing for much in the BET with regard to NCAA seeding, but momentum will matter for the first couple of rounds in the Dance.
by WarmupEwing on Feb 16, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
i thought this 'momentum' theorem was proven to be scientifically false by ohio professor armon bassett
Casually.
Think they won the MAAC tourney in dramatic fashion to get in the Dance
So they actually “out-momentumed” us. We could learn a lot from Ohio.
by WarmupEwing on Feb 16, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
MAC, not MAAC
But otherwise correct
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Feb 16, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Revenge Tour 2012
Me wantz it.
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
The Hoyas beating 'cuse
in the 2012 BET Championship game would be the most awesomest thing to happen in my pathetic post 30s life.
We would also make sure that, whether they leave in ‘12 or ’13, they wouldn’t be able to touch our record (currently tied at 7 w/UConn, ‘cuse stuck at 5). We would also UConn can’t leapfrog us before we move to the CAA in ’14.
But I agree that at least one (more like two) win(s) in the Big Dance is a must this year.
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
This is why the BET is important to me
I want the Hoyas to have the most titles in the history of the league. So in most years, I’d rather win the BET and lose in the NCAA second round than not win the BET and go to the Sweet Sixteen. But after the recent NCAA failures, and resulting student apathy, I think we really need an NCAA win or two this year, moreso than a BET title.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Feb 16, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
just win the BET, against ’cuse or whoever.
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
If ND beats us at our house
Then it is clearly 100% the current student body’s fault for failing to support our team in its hour of need. If you can’t get up for a climactic game against the most famous Catholic school in America, then you don’t really love Georgetown or America.
by HoyaSmacksYa on Feb 16, 2012 9:50 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Can't bear the thought
of putting up with ND fans’ gloating at the VC. Dang, they’re annoying…
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
^this
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
The obvious follow-up question
to who are the starting 5 is who should be the starting 5…
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Student Attendance
Way too much blame on Hoya Blue. Here is why:
Georgetown = lotsa nerds and international students
Nerds and international students = don’t like basketball
It’s that simple folks.
Even when people came to games they just used it as an excuse to get bombed and socialize. I remember seeing people with their back to the game laughing with their friends all the time. Most G’town fans couldn’t tell you the difference between a college and NBA shot clock or how many fouls put you in the bonus or double bonus. A few die hards and the rest don’t know jack about basketball (see what I did there?).
by PhillyPeetzWitRanch on Feb 16, 2012 10:19 AM EST reply actions
uh, yeah
I’m gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. As a nerd, I somehow still like basketball. And of my students, some of the international kids are the biggest student fans — it’s a way for them to bond and make friends more readily than other campus activities.
If nerds didn't like basketball...
Cameron Indoor Stadium would be a ghost town on game nights.
Obviously there are exceptions, but in general that’s the case. It’s the same reason you see the same 20% of the class out at 2AM on a Saturday because 80% of the school doesn’t party.
by PhillyPeetzWitRanch on Feb 16, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Just 20% of the class
Would still fill the student sections a lot more than they have been recently. And this comment, like Male Cheerleaders rambling post, seems to overstate the international student presence to me. Has that segment of the undergraduate population skyrocketed since I graduated in 2008?
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Feb 16, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
This argument does nothing
To explain the extreme disparity between the student crowds of the past couple years compared with a few years earlier. The nerds who don’t like sports are just as nerdy, and the kids who only come to games to get bombed are just as obnoxious. Yet when I was a student, I had to make sure I was there at least an hour early, or maybe two on a Big East Saturday, if I wanted to get in the lower bowl. The students have gotten close to filling the lower level only once this year.
Let's settle this with a poll.
by wadetandy on Feb 16, 2012 11:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fair point
I have no explanation for that as I left in ‘08. I still don’t think it’s Hoya Blue’s fault. I didn’t know what the fuck Hoya Blue was when I was at G’town and I went to every single game. I doubt many people are sitting in their dorms going “Man I really want to go to games, but I don’t know how. I wish there was some sort of student group that could help me!”. Also, the cost argument is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard in my life. With all the trust fund babies at G’town they really can’t shell out $120 for an ENTIRE SEASON?? I paid twice that for my seats at BE tournament every year during school and I was probably in the bottom 1% of wealth at G’town. "Oh why pay for all games when I go to half of them? 1) GO TO THEM ALL 2) WHO CARES IT COMES TO $8 A GAME ANYWAY- now your paying $16?? boo hoo. Get your asses to the games!!!
by PhillyPeetzWitRanch on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with all of this
And wadetandy’s point above.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Feb 16, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
So how do you explain
the student attendance numbers from ‘05-’10 (and possibly other periods?
Wherein we get Gtown vs. Cuse in the semifinals
Miracle in MSG upset.
by J-Wall's Mom's Broom on Feb 16, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Love it!
After that last, unholy row,
I never, ever play, basketball now.
It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils and lovely girls I'll never kiss.
by vivanloshoyas on Feb 16, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
In other cut out stories
This one of Mike Moser at UNLV is kind of amazing. Saw this live over the weekend, and thought it was the width of the student section.


by rochesterhoya07 on Feb 16, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Where do Students go to get these things made?
Is there a company that does this? Are they just going down to kinkos?
by hoyasincebirth on Feb 16, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
I have wondered the same thing
I doubt the BISL has this capability
Georgetown Basketball 2011-2012: Made in China.
by HoyaParanoia85 on Feb 17, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
NCAA success will cure all
Weak student attendance is due entirely to lack of NCAA victories. 2004 to 2008 was a lot of fun in Gtown Fandom, mostly because every season promised to be better than the last. Replacing Esherick w/ JTIII — who was largely unknown but had the right name — got casual fans excited again. We didn’t make the tourney JT’s first season, but people didn’t care because things were looking up. Then BAM a Sweet 16 just like that. Suddenly our games were on TV again. ESPN showed our highlights. We beat Duke and stormed the court for the first time in recent memory. We were sometimes ranked. People would gather around computers on Monday afternoons and click refresh until the new polls came out. We were relevant; it was fun.
Then a Final Four — which was beyond any realistic expectation. We all look back at Green, JWall, and co. now and talk about it as if everyone knew they were in the presence of greatness. That’s not really how it was, though — for the most part people couldn’t believe that our boys, the same ones who just a few years earlier weren’t really even in the BE conversation, were now on the front page of ESPN and the cover of SI. It was surreal.
That sort of success — especially when it’s the unexpected, underdog sort of success — has staying power. It makes fans forget (or at least get past) the miserable losses against Davidson (I was there), Ohio (I was there), and VCU (yep, I was there, too, sorry guys).
But when your baseline view of the program is (1) we expect to get to the NCAA and (2) we expect to have success there, then a bunch of first- or second-round losses are utterly toxic to newly minted fans. And pretty soon people stop caring. What’s the point of getting amped about regular-season victories if people assume we’ll just lose the first weekend of the tourney anyway? Even now, I can’t honestly say that I “expect” to get to the Sweet Sixteen, even if we go in as a 2 seed in the east.
This whole “whose fault is the poor attendance?” discussion is relevant and helpful, but all the efforts of the dedicated few to win over everyone else will fall almost entirely on deaf ears until people again start to believe that we can win in March.
Does anyone know if Manley Field House is still open?
by January 21, 2006 on Feb 16, 2012 11:43 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
no ncaa games for you this year then!
the 1/21/06 hex is strong apparently…
Excellent point. Die hards go through thick and thin, but this debate is mainly about capturing the (small c) casuals. When expectations and outcomes are out of whack, depending on the direction, you’ll see a spike or a dip in interest. Would be interesting to see data on student attendance (not just ticket sales, but bums on seats, if that is tracked) over the years, mapped against team performance, and when classes graduate that had particularly positive or negative runs with the team.
Hammer of the Cuse
which is why based on this year's similar 'surprising success', student attendance won't be an issue at all next season
hoya saxa!
right?
Casually.
Gotta win one...
I think 1/21/06 is right on – the lack of postseason success over the last few years is almost assuredly depressing attendance. I think if we can turn the “surprising success” into a postseason victory, the students will be there next season.
But clearly 1/21/06 needs to NOT go to our NCAA games this year.
Looking for Thunder-based transportation?
by jwallobjects on Feb 16, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
as mentioned by others, key = freshmen
Although scheduling and poor early season games aren’t necesarily an excuse for students not showing up, I think alot of the problem is the freshmen didn’t ever experience a big, exciting electric game ealy on (connecticut the game with most students was fairly far along in the season). In the past there has been a big out of conference game or big east game early on in the season that everyone went to. When the freshmen go to one of these big games, they realize WOW basketball games are really FUN! let’s keep going!! this year, that game never happened – which I think is the biggest reason the student turnout hasn’t been as big as we all would hope.
i dont care where we finish
as long as we get cuse again in BET. not going to complain about officials because it is what happens when you play on the road but we should have beaten them.
Good talk.
and yes, that game still bothers me
and i hope it bothers the players too
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Feb 16, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
on all counts.
Looking for Thunder-based transportation?
by jwallobjects on Feb 16, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be fine if cuse gets bounced on Thursday
Just to hear magoo’s recurring rant about how the double-bye screws over the top team.
by HoyaSmacksYa on Feb 16, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
You know my axe with the officials, Hire....
But the “block” on Henry to open the second half and give Cuse the momentum 100% (not just a bad call, but it was his 3rd), but to have Hollis called for a charge with a minute left, up by 2 when Melo did THE EXACT SAME THING is where I lost it. Fukn bullshit.
We’ll leave the fact that Otto is apparently a ghost who doesn’t get touched when surrounded by 3 guys and likes to throw the ball out of bounds by himself for no reason. We’ll leave that for another time.
Bottom line is this….Cuse wants absolutely ZERO part of the Hoyas in the Garden. They know they got outplayed and outclassed in that game by 4 freshmen. The zone does nothing to us. I pray to Jeebus that we get another crack at them. I’d be more afraid to play Rutgers or Cincy to be honest.
"Before the answer was a 3, I was down in Georgetown with a Hoya chick, lawyer chick....."
by brandonbowmansfootistoobig on Feb 16, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
WVU is the one team I don't want to see
Georgetown Basketball 2011-2012: Made in China.
by HoyaParanoia85 on Feb 16, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Me too, me too.
Was looking at that projected bracket and with WVU a possibility of being our first game… didn’t feel good about that
by henrysimsdunking on Feb 16, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe this would generate fan buzz
Can’t help but to think more transparency between the what the players do and students on campus would help out the cause. Maybe to see how hard they work etc.
Er
Nando’s peri-peri sauce now available at local grocer.
More concerned over what I will cook.
New sig tba
by PerryMcDonald'sRightCross on Feb 16, 2012 9:39 PM EST reply actions
















