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It's Official: Syracuse and Pitt Join the ACC. What Are Georgetown's Options?

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Let me begin by saying that there is no way to understate the enormity of how badly Georgetown will be impacted by Syracuse and Pittsburgh joining the ACC.  If it were a standalone move, the Big East and Georgetown could survive intact, but it seems that the likes of West Virginia, Connecticut and Rutgers will be heading for the exits as well.  The mere fact Big East Commissioner John Marinatto, who was completely and pathetically blindsided by the defections, believes that the conference is "well positioned for the future" is extremely alarming.  The truth is that the Big East is sitting in a very precarious situation and Georgetown has little negotiating power.  The pace of change will only increase following these moves, but below are Georgetown's options - ranging from implausible and desirable to likely and depressing.

Star-divide

Beg the ACC to be added as a non-football playing member
This would be the ideal option.  It would preserve Georgetown's rivalry with Syracuse as well as reestablish the defunct but much desired game with Maryland.  It would secure Georgetown a spot in a steady conference (until the next round of expansion) and make geographic sense - not that that matters anymore.  There is no rule that conferences need to have the same number of football schools as basketball schools.  What about an ACC that has 16 football schools and 24 basketball schools?  The absurdity of a 24 team conference went out the window when the Big East proved that 16 teams worked.  The ACC's steadfast loyalty to true home and home series was waived in favor of 12 teams and football money in 2003.  The ACC could add Connecticut and Rutgers to level its football-playing schools off at 16, then add the 8 remaining non-football playing schools, including Notre Dame, from the Big East.  Makes perfect sense, right?

I hope I am wrong, but I do not see this as a realistic alternative.  In fact, I see the ACC and Commissioner John Swofford tearing in laughter at this proposal.  Why would the ACC do such a thing?  What strategic value does adding non-football playing schools bring?  It already has access to many of the markets the non-football playing schools provide, including DC and New York, and building a 24 team basketball conference will just lead to another round of contraction in the near future.  Maybe adding 8 non-football schools is too much, perhaps just a couple would be more acceptable to the ACC.  Georgetown can make a case it is the cream of the crop given its tradition, location and already established rivalries with the new ACC teams.  It brings a level of academic reputation that might perk the ears of University presidents, especially at Duke and UNC.  This is certainly a possibility but it falls on the back of Georgetown officials, with whom I assign the same level of foresight and strategic planning as Big East Commissioner John Marinatto: NONE

"Raid" the Big 12 and Create an Island of Misfit Toys
Assuming 3-4 teams leave the Big East, there are still plenty of other schools out there to add.  Iowa State and Baylor have both reportedly expressed interest in joining the Big East.  Memphis and Temple would jump at the opportunity to leave their conferences.  Kansas and Kansas State will be looking for new homes if the Big 12 dissolves.  The Big East could be saved, and remain a superb basketball conference without Syracuse and Pittsburgh.  But wouldn't this just be setting the Big East up for another round of raiding in the near future?  Does Georgetown want to remain in a conference that has no leadership, direction, backbone and most importantly, sureness?  How positive are we that new members of the conference would not just be using the Big East as a launching pad for entry into one of the new super conferences? 

Despite the concerns, I think this is the most viable option for Georgetown.  For reasons that will be discussed below, Georgetown will have trouble surviving as a basketball program without big name conference opponents.  Even if the Big East becomes a revolving door for football-playing schools, Georgetown is better served competing with the state schools than it is retreating to a mid major conference.  Increase the buyout fee to $20 million and add, add, add.

Create the "Catholic League":
Saying to hell with football and creating a conference consisting of basketball-only schools has been discussed many times before.  It is a legitimate option; the eight non-basketball playing schools can add a few from the A-10 and create small, fierce, and strategically-aligned conference.

I would be all for this idea if Georgetown played in an 8,000 person on-campus arena.  But it does not.  Nor will it ever.  Georgetown plays in the 7th largest arena in Division I basketball, despite being significantly smaller than its rivals.  Georgetown has a hard enough time filling up the arena on weekdays against Big East teams, imagine what it would be like against Xavier or St. Joes.  This isn't a criticism of the Georgetown fan base, it is a reality Georgetown fans have been forced to accept due to poor planning and foresight by the administration.  

The biggest loss will come from TV revenue.  Georgetown vs. Dayton does not have the same allure Georgetown vs. Pittsburgh does.  This is money the school cannot afford to lose, since the basketball program supports the entire athletic department.  Under this scenario there will be major changes at Georgetown, including but not limited to cutting sports teams or finding a new, far-away home for Georgetown basketball.  It is not the death of the program as some may contend.  But it will certainly change the level at which we compete.  My hope is that this is a worst case scenario, occurring only if the Big East folds and no other conference agrees to take on non-football playing schools.

Other Options:

  • Join the Patriot League
  • Beg Texas to join the Big East and give them free reign over conference decisions
  • Petition to join the Ivy League
  • Become an independent
  • Apply for membership to the Big Ten

Who to Blame:

  • Blame Notre Dame for refusing to be the Big Ten's twelfth member and leaving all the leagues at 12. Jim Delaney going out and poaching Nebraska from the Big XII is what set this whole carousel in motion.
  • Blame Jim Delaney for raiding the Big XII and then acknowledging they likely would go to 16 before all was said and done.
  • Blame the Big XII for having such a wildly unequal revenue sharing structure in the first place that their schools have all been trying to find a better paycheck somewhere else. So really...
  • Blame Texas for setting up that unequal revenue sharing structure, and then adding insult to injury by going out and creating their own television network with ESPN at a time when they should've been working towards a Big XII network akin to the Big Ten, SEC, PAC-12, et al.
  • Blame the ACC for making it clear, back in the early 2000s, that it was apparently acceptable for commissioners of one league to go behind the back of their colleagues and set up secret arrangements with member schools. Blame the schools that left the Big East for the ACC for acting so furtively, not to mention selfishly, so that their peer schools in the league that first welcomed them didn't even have time to sit down and discuss alternatives before they bolted.
  • Blame Larry Scott of the PAC-12 for jumping on board with this whole 16 school superconference nonsense.
  • Blame the NCAA for sitting on its hands while all this happened and failing to come up with a sensible championship structure for Division I football. Everyone's known for years that the BCS was unsustainable... now it's about to become irrelevant.
  • Hoyas can blame Georgetown for its abysmal financial decisions in the 1970s onward that cost us the Mount Vernon property, among other things, where we could have built a Big East home arena and other athletic facilities. Georgetown has frankly gotten lucky with the likes of its coaching, and their failure to upgrade athletic facilities is a big part of all this. The football team plays in front of high school bleachers. There baseball team practices at a prep school a half hour away. The nationally ranked track team has no home track. All of the athletes lift on converted indoor tennis courts in an intramural sports facility that's been slowly collapsing since it opened. And, obviously, the basketball arena is woefully inadequate. 

Going Forward:
The worst thing Georgetown can do in this scenario is wait to see what happens.  The winners of conference realignment, as Pittsburgh and Syracuse just demonstrated, are proactive, not reactive.  While Georgetown does not have the bargaining power of the football giants, it should not limit the university from reaching out and shaping its own future, both as a standalone entity and as a group of non-football playing schools.  It is clear that there are no allegiances in this game and bad blood will just be overshadowed by big money.

Three cheers for amateur athletics!!

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we are as fucked...

as you guys are.

"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."

"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.

by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 18, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

the acc isn't taking us.

"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."

"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.

by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 18, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...

Texas, Baylor, TCU, Iowa St, Memphis, Temple, Marshall, Charlotte (starting football in ’13), UCF, Richmond (moves up), USF, Cincinnati, Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Providence, Marquette, Depaul, Seton Hall, Xavier

This assumes that WV/Louisville go to the SEC and Rutgers/UConn go to the ACC

Wishful thinking though

by VictorPage'sLeftEye on Sep 18, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't want to live in a Frankenstein Big East

Composed entirely of big stupid football schools.

BREAK OFF

by tjm62 on Sep 18, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't either

I liked it the way it was

SMH

but we need to be able to fill Verizon consistently

by VictorPage'sLeftEye on Sep 18, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kentucky doesn't..

want Louisville in the SEC.

"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."

"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.

by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 18, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like the idea of a Catholic Super Conference

This can work. Get Xavier, St. Joes, Dayton, and somebody else, while retaining the reminder of the BE. This can work, I know it can. I agree our administration has got to be extremely proactive right now and figure out what it’s options are, because if they sit and wait, it’s going to be ugly for the Hoyas when the music stops.

However, going independent does intrigue me as well, although I’m not aware anyone has ever done that in basketball only.

I marched on Leavey to keep the Pub open in the 90's.

by Cuse Swallows on Sep 18, 2011 12:33 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Have any of those teams

ever had more than two of their regular season games played on national tv?

by AnotherGtownJack on Sep 18, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe St. Joe's did...

during their undefeated regular season a few years back. But, I don’t really know for sure.

I marched on Leavey to keep the Pub open in the 90's.

by Cuse Swallows on Sep 18, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is the real kicker:
But the Big East passed on a television contract that would have put it on the same financial plane as the A.C.C., and must now regret that decision. Big East officials are irate that Pitt led the charge (with Rutgers close behind) to reject that deal, meaning it jeopardized the league’s security in both the short term (by leaving) and in the long term (by helping shoot down a lucrative contract).

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/sports/big-east-exit-is-said-to-begin-for-syracuse-and-pittsburgh.html?_r=1

Pitt led the charge to shoot down a TV contract for Big East football, and then left the conference weeks afterwards.

Good talk.
Casual Hoya

by Hire Esherick on Sep 18, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

He was

also part of the lawsuit against the ACC the first time they grabbed teams from the big east. Spoke then about broken commitments and needed to respect your fellow conference teams. Seems laughable now.

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument

by boubacarfor3 on Sep 18, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy Shit

When he became chairman of the Big East executive committee did he also say, “It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling. I love democracy.”

by Great Vengeance and Furious Anger on Sep 18, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, no way on the ACC, I assume

But one thing Gtown does bring: a basketball arena in a city that has alums of every ACC school, and (usually) enough seats to allow them to see their team without traveling to tobacco road (or Syracuse, or Boston, or Pittsburgh…).

by Hilltopping on Sep 18, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Texas is quite possibly the key

Why not let Texas run free in football al la Notre Dame? That way they don’t ruin the non-revenue sports and we bring in a big program that can ensure some stability.

Very well might bring Kansas and Kstate along with, only strengthening the basketball side.

Cuse delenda est

by onceahoya on Sep 18, 2011 1:52 PM EDT reply actions  

My 2 cents

- ACC is a pipe dream.

- Kansas and Memphis would replace the basketball value of Cuse-Pitt but the football crappiness would be too bitter of a pill to swallow for the rest of the conference

- In a Catholic League, it would not be impossible to use McDonough for the unexciting home games and use Verizon for the big games

by hoya ghost on Sep 18, 2011 2:27 PM EDT reply actions  

The ultimate culprit is the University

We’ve been existing as this awkward anomaly for over three decades, and it’s finally time to either reconcile the dual identities at work at GU, or part with one and lose a valuable part of our community. For the most archaic and short-sighted reasons, there are members of the administration who feel that the basketball program is a black mark on the school’s academic profile. There are far more GU officials who just don’t care enough about the basketball program to be proactive and efficient in running it, and those few that do care don’t seem to know how to run it well.

HE is right when he alludes to the notion that Georgetown basketball could survive and even thrive as a robust, albeit smaller, program if it was forced to play in a league with smaller schools. I have no problem with the idea of playing in a “mid-major” conference, because that term is going to mean nothing in the insane jungle that the NCAA has become, where 96 teams make the dance. However, being that kind of program requires more active management than what the powers-that-be on the Hilltop seem to be capable of, by a long shot. There are people sitting behind expensive desks at our school who have no idea how hurt this university will be, both financially and in terms of identity, if they let this program fade away.

The reality is that there is very little holding Georgetown basketball together. And for those of you who love to slam JT3 because some sophomore is upset with playing time and transfers…I have news for you – nearly all of it hangs on his personal loyalty to the school. If he leaves anytime soon, the whole program goes south in a hurry. It’s time for the university to get its act together and start creating some kind of future for this team. The current situation is beyond saving, and no amount of geographically absurd mix-and-matching can keep it around.

by WarmupEwing on Sep 18, 2011 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Likely moves

My assumptions: Big 12 and Big East will not survive in their current form. ACC will likely continue to expand. SEC will add at least one school. Big 10 will not expand unless it gets Notre Dame. PAC 12 will expand only if it gets elite programs.

PAC 12 adds: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Baylor/Boisie State
SEC adds: Texas A&M and West Virginia
ACC adds: UConn and South Florida
Big East adds: Kansas, Kansas State, Memphis, and Missouri
Big 12 adds: a shit load of Conference USA teams

If we are smart, we try to get Villanova, Notre Dame, Maquette, Providence, and St. Johns and break away now. I’d rather have more control in a more stable conference than continue to have little control in a hybrid basketball/football league.

by StPetersburgHoya on Sep 18, 2011 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Motion to Recess

A pre-season happy hour at Iron Horse this week with the theme “Drink like it is the end of the world” seems like a good idea to me right now. How much time in advance do we need to casually take over Iron Horse and consume unhealthy amounts of alcohol?

by Great Vengeance and Furious Anger on Sep 18, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

We have to keep the Big East afloat

for as long as possible before giving up and joining a Catholic league. We keep the Big East afloat with the schools the big four conferences leave out. Obviously, we have no chance of getting into the ACC until all the SEC, ACC, BIG 10 and PAC 10 max out at 16 football schools. Maybe it’s crazy but I don’t think it’s impossible to imagine the ACC wanting to add a few marquee non-football programs. Eight is way to many, but two isn’t and I think ‘Nova and GU are easily at the top of the list. It makes the ACC the top basketball conference in the country which isn’t an absurd thing to want to do since they’re still going to be the worst football conference in the country.

And look, maybe everyone maxes out at 16 and we’re stuck playing TCU, Iowa State and South Florida twice a year indefinitely. If and when that happens: okay, super-catholic mid major league it is.

by AnotherGtownJack on Sep 18, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

The going independent idea

is actually one of the most hilariously delusional ideas ever.

by AnotherGtownJack on Sep 18, 2011 5:44 PM EDT reply actions  

More Friendly Neighborhood Pessimism

Why is everyone here so sure that the Big East can just nab Kansas and Missouri before the Big Ten does? I know the Big Ten rejected Missouri last year, and that neither of those schools really fits with the “academic profile” the Big Ten feigns to look for, but I think that stuff is going to be irrelevant really quickly. Put it this way: the Big Ten would much rather have the athletic (and academic) departments of Kansas and Missouri than Baylor or Iowa State.

I’d be shocked if Kansas and Mizzou end up anywhere else.

by Vee Sanford's Next-door Neighbor on Sep 18, 2011 6:49 PM EDT reply actions  

True

The Big Ten is not going to sit by and watch everyone else go to 16. They would be the logical teams from a geographic stand point. Also, it is written they are looking at Rutgers as because of the NY/NJ market.

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument

by boubacarfor3 on Sep 18, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Madison Square Garden

Do you gentlemen think the conference, in what ever state it emerges, will be able to hold onto the Garden for the tourney? The ACC commissioner mentioned wanting to now hold the conference tourney in New York on occasion and one would assume he is referring to the Garden. That would make my stomach turn to see it happen.

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument

by boubacarfor3 on Sep 18, 2011 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Big East has a contract with MSG till 2016

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/35444/coaches-react-to-conference-shakeup

“The Big East confirmed Sunday that its contract with MSG goes through the 2016 tournament, but a source with knowledge of the situation said the Garden would be open to hosting the ACC tournament. MSG aggressively pursues hosting Syracuse and Pitt for non-Big East games and consistently tries to get Duke and Carolina in there as well. The Blue Devils will play Washington in the Garden in December. UNC faced Rutgers there this past December.”

But I have no idea long term. The deep dark pit of my soul tells me they will go with the ACC unless we can offer them something better when this is all over. I wouldn’t be surprised if MSG didn’t like the idea of hosting the tournament just once every two years. So here’s hoping UNC and Duke are too afraid to leave Greensboro.

by Great Vengeance and Furious Anger on Sep 18, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least there is a contract

thru 2016, but I guess there needs to be a conference existing to honor it. I hope if they want to come to new york they would go to the new arena being built for the Nets in Brooklyn.

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument

by boubacarfor3 on Sep 19, 2011 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dream Scenario:

-4 16 team leagues emerge: The PAC-16, SEC, Big 10 (I could seriously see them not changing their name) and ACC.

-64 football teams secede from the NCAA.

-Football conferences become completely separate from other-sport conferences.

-Football schools are still allowed to use Football revenue on NCAA sanctioned sports.

-Georgetown exists in limbo for only a few years, quazi-traditional big east reforms, with or without Pitt, syracuse, Va Tech and BC.

by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Sep 18, 2011 7:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I vote

Hoya Blue organizes a mass suicide.

I am not Casual Hoya.

by Causal Hoya on Sep 18, 2011 8:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Seconded.

The blog: Hoya Suxa | The Twitter: Hoya Suxa | The Facebook: Hoya Suxa

by Hoya Suxa on Sep 18, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You don't live here anymore

Have fun trying to get the tobacco road conference to give two shits about your salt mine hellscape in southern Canada.

by Markel's Right Hook on Sep 19, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope GTown lands on their feet

would be a shame for a program like that not to end up in a good situation. I hope ND joins as a bball school and the ACC asks GTown to do the same to round things out…in an ideal world…we’ll see.

SU 97

by nleary66 on Sep 18, 2011 11:22 PM EDT reply actions  

This may be a stretch and tell me if you think so

but I think ESPN deserves some of the blame for this debacle. Year in and year out we have to hear what the best football conference is, although we gladly accept this for basketball. However, football is huge in this country and the talking heads on ESPN constantly emphasize what the best conference is for football. I think it really motivates schools to join other conferences, as well as the conferences themselves to add marquis names and brands (ie Big Ten and Nebraska). Because the Big Ten would hear how weak a conference they are, they felt the need to expand, thus causing this domino effect we are now experiencing.

He's not just a great passer for a big man...

by He'sJustAGreatPasser on Sep 18, 2011 11:49 PM EDT reply actions  

they have been pimping the ACC for two decades now

an ACC superconference is a wet dream for espn execs

Good talk.
Casual Hoya

by Hire Esherick on Sep 18, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a stretch at all

ESPN’s position of power in both Collegiate and Professional athletics is disturbing and has reached the point of absurdity. For better or worse, they are at once the most powerful “journalistic” voice in sports, while also being the powerhouse provider of content. What wall exists separating the programming from the reporting? None. They negotiate with the leagues and conferences for economic benefit and then report on the stories they created. No doubt at all that ESPN had a direct role in creating this mess. When the ACC moves into MSG for their tourney who will stand to benefit the most? ESPN.

by hoyamarlin on Sep 19, 2011 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth ...

I feel compelled to note that Texas tried to have the Big XII start its own television network akin to the Big 10 network but was voted down, so they went out on their own. Also, they weren’t the only school in the conference favoring unequal revenue sharing of third-tier television rights (network and second-tier rights are shared, btw).

Personally, I’m going to blame Syracuse. I need to focus my anger where it will do the most good.

by John Coctostan on Sep 19, 2011 9:14 AM EDT reply actions  

View from a Syracuse grad (no troll)

I think the best overall scenario for Georgetown, Villanova and the other remaining basketball schools would be to lobby hard and bring in the Big-12 leftovers. When the carousel stops moving, all that will be left of the BE football programs will be Louisville, USF, Cincy and TCU.

I think Providence would jump at the chance to take 4-6 schools to shore up the football conference while ensuring the stability of the BE as a top basketball conference. When Texas, Texas Tech, OU and Ok St. make up their minds and bolt to the Pac 12/16, Kansas, K-State, Iowa State, Missouri, and Baylor should be orphaned and looking for a home. If you add them to what the BE has left, you will have a midwestern-skewed football conference, and a (still) excellent basketball conference that has strong support on the east coast and midwest. You could even see a scenario whereby the basketball schools form one division (G’town, ‘Nova, Providence, St. Johns, SH, Marquette, DePaul +1 football school), and the football schools another. That’s a great basketball conference with some marquee match-ups, and I don’t see a major drop off in television revenue in that scenario. Add an annual game against Syracuse, and I think you’d be looking at a pretty familiar world after all.

I guess, all I am saying is that this could end up okay…and I am hoping it does. Full disclosure, I am a Syracuse grad, but live in Virginia and therefore can’t help but have friends that went to G’town — many in-fact.

I despise your basketball team once or twice every year for about 2 hours and then go back to being a normal person you could share a beer with – do you fancy boys drink beer, or is it just Cabernet? I can’t help but want it all to work out for you so we can all be in a “good place” when we lace it up and hopefully keep going to war with each other in the winter…my life would be just a little less happy if we didn’t.

Good luck

by The Invisible Swordsman on Sep 19, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

I think most of this is overly optimistic...

Why would the Big XII left overs join the BE and inherit schools they don’t want? I think it goes the opposite direction. Think this through:

- Tx, TT, Ok, Ok St to Pac16

- WVU to SEC (they stop at 14 for now because there is NOBODY else who actually improves their TV share – only the North Carolina schools really make sense and in the under-rated story line of this process, apparently UNC is the only school that cares more about keeping together with its academic peers and rivals than football $$$)

- RU and USF to ACC (going to humor the thought that the ACC won’t touch UConn)

- Mizzou and ND to B10 (they also stop at 14 because again, I don’t think anyone else actually makes economic sense)

- At this point, the B12 is KU, KSt, Baylor, IowaSt and the BE is Uconn, UC, UL, TCU. What’s more likely? UC, UL and TCU want to stay aligned with Provy, SHU and DePaul? Or they take an invite to the B12 with Houston, UCF and who knows what else? I’m not sure what happens with UConn, but I also don’t really care (maybe ND stays indy and UConn goes to the B10, but academically, I don’t know that they would stomach that).

This is my fear and I think the more likely scenario… The king of basketball conferences is dead, long live the king…

by CincyHoya on Sep 19, 2011 10:12 AM EDT reply actions  

One other thing...

…that’s always lingered in the back of my mind. People have talked about football breaking away from the NCAA. To me, that feels like a major lawsuit waiting to happen from anyone excluded in that process. The NCAA and it’s member institutions are all non-profit, un-taxed entities. You’d think breaking away from that and excluding certain members would open up a whole world of legal issues… Who knows, when all is said and done, we could find ourselves at the big-boy table with someone we’re not thinking about for everything other than football.

The B10 wants more East Coast market penetration, right? Maybe they land some more NY / DC sets for the B10 network year-round through basketball and they can do it without sacrificing academics. The conference may die, but there are ways we don’t have to die too…

by CincyHoya on Sep 19, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would have to think someone in Congress begins the question the tax-free status of institutions that change allegiances due to “more money”

What happens to the NCAA Tournament if football schools break away from the NCAA? Would it just become a basketball tournament of football schools?

Good talk.
Casual Hoya

by Hire Esherick on Sep 19, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

The “raid the Big 12” model is not going to be financially sustainable…especially for non-football schools. We are already burning tons of money playing non-basketball games at South Florida and now TCU, imagine how much more expensive a lot of our programs would be if they had to fly teams out to Kansas every year. In order for this model to work there could be no inter-division cross over games in any sports other than basketball.

Not to mention the schools involved play a hodgepodge of sports. None of the Big 12 schools mentioned play men’s soccer, but they all wrestle (I don’t think any Big East schools other than Rutgers wrestle). We already play out of conference for lacrosse. Will this really be a conference if the soccer, wrestling, lacrosse and field hockey divisions are all made up of completely different teams? The only sports common to all schools are basketball, track, cross country, baseball and softball.

by guwinster on Sep 19, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

What do you think of this idea then?

We need to create the (mostly) Catholic school All-Basketball Super League.

Keep the following BE leftovers together

1. G’Town
2. DePaul
3. Providence
4. Seton Hall
5. Marquette
6. St. Johns
7. Notre Dame

Poach the following:

8. Xavier (A-10)
9. St. Bonaventure (A-10)
10. St. Joseph’s (A-10)
11. Dayton (A-10)
12. Saint Louis (A-10)
13. Butler (Horizon)
14. Loyola (IL) (Horizon) or Creighton (Missouri Valley) or Loyola (MD) (MAAC).

That conference covers the Northeast (NYC, DC), New Jersey market, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Indianapolis (or Omaha if Creighton, or Baltimore if Loyola).

THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A SECOND. IS IT FUCKED UP? (YES). BUT WE FIND OURSELVES IN A FUCKED UP SITUATION RIGHT NOW.

In fact, we find ourselves possibly merging with the remnants of the B12 and whatever we have left of the BE after others poach our conference. (Does anyone really want to make a trip to Waco for a GU/Baylor tilt)? Or how about Ames, Iowa on a -30 F evening in mid-February to watch Henry Sims wear a parka on court during warmups? I don’t think so.

For GU to not only SURVIVE but to THRIVE, this conference adds mega value to the small all-basketball schools, Notre Dame which would keep its precious football independence, yet park the remainder of their sports in a relevant big conference with legit credibility, and add some other up and coming programs like Butler and Creighton the opportunity to continually be selected as at-large bids to March Madness.

I marched on Leavey to keep the Pub open in the 90's.

by Cuse Swallows on Sep 19, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the idea

just not sure if you would need so many teams. Personally 12 would be enough, and I fully believe Villanova will be part of what ever is done as I don’t think they will get into a big boy conference because of football. I would say your first seven, plus Villanova. Then St. Joes, Xavier, Saint Louis, and maybe Dayton. Also have heard a little bit about Temple if they decide on a basketball only conference. As a side thought to the delusion, would Villanova oppose St. Joe’s or Temple because of the Big 5 rivalry?

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument

by boubacarfor3 on Sep 20, 2011 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whats that REM song again?

And who do we talk to about officially changing the mascot to a dodo?

Bring back Don Reid

by Insidious Rex on Sep 19, 2011 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

It could be worse, much worse

On the plus side, Georgetown will still be part of what appears to be a Big East + Big 12 merger. So, the Big 12 will be the surviving entity….guess what, that means you get to keep a lucrative TV contract with the devil in all this ESPN and still have major programs to play. Cuse and UConn will continue to play G’town because they need to and well because they may not play Maryland every year to steel recruits from you in the DC area.

by bearcat saxa on Sep 20, 2011 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

forgot the link

click here for why it could be worse, much worse

by bearcat saxa on Sep 20, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

if we stay in the big east / big 12

do we want to play uconn and syracuse?

seems better for them than it does for us. they get to appease their dc alums/fans and stay relevant in DC. we get to appease our storrs and syracuse fans and stay relevant in CT and upstate NY?

I dont see the point.

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Sep 20, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't like the idea of making their moves so cost-free for them

Especially if the programs are going in opposite directions for the foreseeable future – won’t be fun having that rammed down our throats at the home games.

On the other hand, our home schedule which is nothing to write home about this year will be in truly sorry state a couple of years from now. Given the expense of Verizon, do we need these games to pay the bills (even if the place is stuffed with Orange)? And do we need someone worthy to hate as a fan base and the tension around such games? While the basketball would be good, I’d have a hard time summoning loathing for Kansas, and truly who gives two craps about Baylor and Iowa State?

Our rivalry schedule suddenly dwindles to Nova, and then a step below that perhaps St Johns, then the likes of ND and Louisville who don’t particularly care about us. Maybe some good-natured ribbing with Marquette. Other than that, nothing.

KBE

by SirHoya on Sep 20, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would rather get the Terps and Duke on the schedule again

Even if meant going to Comcast first, than play Cuse or Pitt again.

I am still not connvinced UConn has a landing spot in the ACC. I think there might be some of the grand old ACC still thinks of them as a commuter school with decent Bball. BC already showed the ACC that the NE schools don’t travel great. Or the ACC is just waiting to see which way Texas jumps.

by bunk moreland on Sep 20, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

and for the big 12 east conference tourney

You get to travel to places like Dallas which i understand is quite Casual. Just ask A Rod

by bearcat saxa on Sep 20, 2011 10:02 AM EDT reply actions  

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