Georgetown Transfers: Are You Concerned?
by JGD on Apr 18, 2011 9:00 AM EDT
in Recruiting
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PrintOn Friday, news came out that sophomore guard Vee Sanford is transferring from Georgetown. The transfer could not have come as a surprise to anyone who watched the Hoyas play this season. Sanford would come into games in limited minutes, knock down a couple threes, and then would be sent to the bench for reasons the common fan couldn't understand. It was clear that there was some sort of disconnect between Sanford and Georgetown Head Coach John Thompson III that none of us will ever get clarity on. Regardless, when senior guard Chris Wright went down with a broken hand in late February and Sanford saw no increase in minutes, the writing was on the wall that Sanford was not part of Georgetown's long term plan. Sanford's sulking body language on the bench also showed that Georgetown was not part of his long term plan.
These things happen, over 100 Division I basketball players will transfer this spring. College sports are a unique time in an athlete's life. Every single player that gets a scholarship to play at Georgetown was by far the best player on his high school team. Yet, only a few get to play, and only a few of those will be able to make a living playing a game they've dedicated their lives to up to that point. Combine that with the normal forces that every college student goes through - living away from home, living by yourself, adjusting to a new part of the country, etc etc - and it makes sense that there is a high level of turnover and transfers. Hell, I transferred myself and I'm not good at anything. That said, since JT3 has been at the helm, there have been an ungodly number of transfers out of Georgetown.
After The Jump, more thoughts.
Here is a list of Georgetown's recruits since JT3's first recruiting class in 2005.
2005 - Jessie Sapp (Graduated), Patrick Ewing Jr. (Graduated, Transferred from Indiana), Marc Egerson (Transferred), Octavius Spann (Transferred), Josh Thornton (Transferred)
2006 - DaJuan Summers (Left Early, 2nd Round Pick), Vernon Macklin (Transferred), Jeremiah Rivers (Transferred)
2007 - Austin Freeman (Will Graduate in May), Chris Wright (Will Graduate in May), Nikita Mescheriakov (Transferred), Omar Wattad (Transferred)
2008 - Greg Monroe (Left Early, 1st Round Pick), Jason Clark (Current), Henry Sims (Current), Julian Vaughn (Will Graduate in May, Transferred from Florida State), Chris Braswell (Failed to Qualify)
2009 - Hollis Thompson (Current), Jerrelle Benimon (Current), Vee Sanford (Transferred), Dashonte Riley (Decommitted)
2010 - Nate Lubick (Current), Markel Starks (Current), Moses Ayegba (Current), Aaron Bowen (Current)
There is some speculation that the 2009 class is not done with transfers. If we assume one more player from the 2009 class transfers, only the 2008 and 2010 classes will have remained largely intact since they came to Georgetown. There should not be a penalty on JT3 for Monroe or Summers leaving, because losing talented players early to the NBA is just the name of the game. 2005 is also an outlier because the program was clearly in transition and was able to get much better quality players after some tournament successes, which displaced guys like Spann, Thornton and Egerson.
The problem is that from 2006-2009, three of the four classes had less than 50% of the players stay at Georgetown. Yet, when you look at the names, Macklin, Rivers and potentially Sanford are the only three players that could have had an impact on the court. My argument to that argument is that JT3 is responsible for bringing players in, and did he really think Nikita Mescheriakov, Omar Wattad, and others were guys that would really contribute big minutes?
I am starting to get dizzy arguing with myself, so I leave it you, oh loyal reader. Are you concerned with the amount of Georgetown transfers? The "yes" answer is that the offense takes a while to understand, and the program needs continuity. The "no" answer is that we are substituting better players for the players that are leaving.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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did he really think Nikita Mescheriakov, Omar Wattad, and others were guys that would really contribute big minutes
No. But they filled gaps and were then recruited over. It is not like they were our star signees. They committed late in the process and knew they were coming in for spot minutes. After they were recruited over, they left to get more PT elsewhere. I have no problem with that.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
No, I am not...
Can’t predict the future but there seems to be some stability settling in with the 2010 class and the 2011 class features guys that seem geared for the offense and genuinely excited to play for Georgetown.
I know this not because I know the players themselves but because I follow their tweets.
The internet is amazing.
Casually.
What's really amazing
is that we were so challenged talent-wise in the recent past that both Nikitia AND Omar got significant minutes. Only guys I’ve truly been upset about leaving were Macklin and potentially Sanford (though neither showed much during their time at GU).
OTOH, what’s frustrating is that some of these lesser guys sometimes develop late in their college careers to become solid, and in rare instances very good, players. Remember Charles Smith? Or even Darrel Owens more recently? Our deep bench guys never get a chance to do that because of the way 3 neglects/recruits over the players who aren’t among his chosen favorites.
so who takes the blame?
is it JT3 not trusting his players (putting ‘way too much’ emphasis on his system of choice) or the player not getting through to JT3 (perhaps of his favortism)?
All those players were recruited by a different coach.
A case can be made that NONE of JTIII’s recruits have ever reached his potential.. Maybe JWall and he was a walkon. maybe Sapp, but he regressed in his senior year. The problem is the development. And the coach is responsible for that.
JTIII has alot to prove to me. And he keeps letting players go, destroying the continuity. And that in turn creates another excuse for the poor product. “we’re young”, we’re have alot of new players"
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont understand this "reach potential" nonsense
i hope no player reaches his full potential by 21. i mean if jeff green going from unranked prospect to lottery pick and big east player of the year isnt a sign of development, then i dont know what is. same with hibbert.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at it this way
Two comparable players. Nolan Smith and Austin Freeman. Do you think that Austin reached his college potential? And did Nolan?
Austin was a good player but became very inconsistent. I say potential is “gaining” consistency. NONE of the players he’s recruited have been consistent. You had no idea who sould show up.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
ok
let’s compare greg monroe to the rest of the 2010 nba draft. monroe was the steal of the draft for the way he has been playing. does jt3 get no credit for that?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
jt3 has had five players drafted in the nba – does he get no credit for that because freeman had a crappy end to his sr yr?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
He gets credit for that
He also gets credit for not winning a postseason game with that talented of a player
he won post-season games
lost in a last second shot in the BET finals. monroe shined during that post-season tournament.
if jt3 is only measured by ncaa tournament success then this is a different argument.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok then
Let’s measure him by his Big East conference record the last three season’s
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
why last 3?
why not last 7?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
you are systematically taking away all the successes he had with green, hibbert and wallace and only considering failures with playing a 3 guard lineup.
its obvious that did not work, and based on the way he is recruiting, he wont be going back to it. why harp on it?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
i think if he goes 4 yrs without winning an NCAA tournament game – the post season everyone cares about most – then it is entirely fair to criticize him. Considering the team we have next year that scenario is probable i think. So we have a situation here in a year where you probably will be able to say that his teams were good 5 yrs ago…that’s a long time.
i accept that
he tried to win using “the nova formula”: relying on 3 smart guards and he got burned by injuries/illnesses and lack of support from others. i think sims not developing really hurt the team over the last few years. although i doubt thompson would ever acknowledge it publicly (nor should he because it would be essentially calling out wright and freeman), coach knows he cant win with just guards and he is set out to change the team, as evidenced by the way he has recruited this year.
im ok with criticizing the coach. he is accountable for the results of all seasons. im not ok with taking the last fews years of tournament disappointment and saying it is a systematic problem of thompson and his system. or saying he cant coach, or cant develop talent because of the results of two games in two years.
there will come a time when he will be evaluated as a coach, but i think his remarkable turnaround of a program that made 1 ncaa tournament in the 7 years before he took the job has bought him enough time to figure out what type of players he needs to have sustained success. next year will have its ups and downs, and not every freshman will turn out as great as they might seem now, but after a few disappointing recruiting classes, the program is heading back in the right direction.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's responsible for this imbalanced roster
Which in turn gives him a “built in excuse” when the team suffers. I’d love for GTown to be in the Top 3 for a top 5 PURE point guard one day. They don’t even have to lan him, just have us on his radar.
lol. at most 15 teams can claim that in a year
and generally, duke, UK, KU, and UNC get listed by multiple PGs at that level. btw, Chris Wright was the #8 PG his year.
oh, and 2012’s #3 and #4 PGs list g’town
also, semaj christon is currently a 2011, but if he reclassifies to 2012, he’s g’town’s to lose and would be a top 5 PG.
smh.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 20, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
HIs job
is to coach college players to win in his system. Let’s take Jason Clark for example. A Junior. Does it seem that he’s developed, the way he turns the ball over? Look at the VCU team. Do they seem well coached? What about Butler? I can keep going on… These programs develop the talent they’re given. You don’t see that at Gerogetown. No consistency and poor ball security.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
let's look at chris wright, for example.
did he or did he not dramatically improve as a PG over the years? VCU and Butler did better than everyone in the nation except for one team in the tourney (don’t forget: VCU’s regular season was a serious disappointment). talk about selecting on the dependent.
the ball security needs to improve. ideally, part of that improvement will come with having a better post presence so team’s can’t pressure the perimeter as much. but my god, you’re way too negative.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I would like to add
is that JT3 at times seems to stagnant on relying on his system (now he’s recruiting the athletic guys to counteract this issue), also the Defense (or lack thereof) and Rebounding is always an achilles heels as well (in which I’ve stated on numerous statements) that we see on certain stretches that has haunted the Hoyas and again, the strategy is what hinders JT3 as well….so we as fans have to see what JT3 has in stored for these recruits…
I didn't see any DRAMATIC improvement
The last two season’s were status quo for Chris Wright.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
CWright
did improve, please give credit where credit is due (yes he was known as the wrecking ball earlier in his career (cut short his breaking his foot his sophmore season), but he has came along and was the heart and soul of that team….
CW missed the BE schedule for his freshman year
His career showed steady improvement throughout, with a HUGE stride forward for his senior year. And “Wrecking Ball” wasn’t wholly an insult, much like his teammates’ referring to him as the Incredible Hulk.
by HoyaSmacksYa on Apr 18, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
well, then we fundamentally disagree.
which is not a surprise, as you seem to be trolling.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
What I see on the court is negative.
I would like to see some consistent improvement instead of the predictable mid season slump that you know is coming…
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
i guess you didn't want the four years prior
oh, wait. jt3 doesn’t get credit for in-season improvement by roy, jeff, and jwall led teams because you said so.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
ummm...one of them developed diabetes
and was equally efficient as nolan smith according to kenpom, but played on a slower paced team and out of position and as the #1 offensive threat.
potential is “consistency.” Nolan + Austin had the same number of single digit scoring games last year + austin had a better shooting percentage.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I've watched Nolan...
Smith play for four years. Nolan Smith is garbage. I’m sure he has nice kenpom numbers, but he doesn’t past the eye test. Too many big games he came up small in.
I am epic win.
by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 18, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly a disturbing trend
But there are lots of moving parts here, including several assistant coaches who have come and gone.
Getting down to it, recruiting for a system is a major challenge. Macklin probably made the right decision and was able to flourish (or at least be a very solid player) at Florida while someone like Rivers had wholly unrealistic expectations for what his game was and could be.
I’m sure there’s blame to spread around but I’d expect that coaches were telling players what they needed to hear during recruiting and the players ate that up. Once on campus, however, it’s a different beast and the players need to buy into the coach’s system.
Sanford will remain a mystery – kid clearly had some talent (though probably not enough to be a major contributor at this level) but there had to be a major disconnect between him and JT3. Hopefully it works out for him but Georgetown won’t skip a beat without him and I doubt that he’ll be missed at all.
by itsallthatmatters on Apr 18, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions
Probably wont skip a beat
They will continue to underachieve and perplex the fanbase. At some point someone will have to realize the JTIII reached his ceiling in 2007.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
So you're saying
That if we play our best under JT3 we can win the BE regular season, BET, and reach the Final Four with a walk-on PG, an overlooked recruit of a PF, a four-year project at C, and a transfer that wasn’t cutting it on a bad IU team?
by WarmupEwing on Apr 18, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Woooow great reply..
Nailed it! If you can get to the final four, you can win it all.. Fact
asst coaches is a good point. but that is a good thing for gtown – the fact they place assistant coaches at head coaching spots.
i think jt3 might not be upfront enough with these recruits. they come in under the guise that the best player gets the spot, get outplayed, and transfer
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
What are the chances
we’re looking at Vee the wrong way. Maybe he was dejected personally, and not as a result of PT. Clearly Thompson knew he was on his way out at some point, or we wouldn’t have stayed on Porter, among others, not to mention picking up Whittington. Is it possible that Vee was checked out long ago, and we just thought he was getting looked over for PT?
by Coach K's kneepads on Apr 18, 2011 9:51 AM EDT reply actions
Either way
he kept him on the bench after Chris went down. So that made no sense. Some say that the players that come in to replace the transfer are better players. I want to see the proof of that. Because looking at the product the last 3 season’s, it doesnt seem that way. I’ll go further. Vernon Macklin would’ve been the second best player on this team.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
dude, vee can't play PG in the offense
he didn’t know the offense. he was a freelancer on both offense and defense. to fans, it looked good. but for the team, it wasn’t a good idea.
also, JT3 probably knew Vee was transferring by the time Chris got injured. Why give those minutes to a soon-to-transfer player instead of the PG of the futre? that’d be really stupid coaching.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
we really don’t the nuances of what goes on in practice so therefore Vee is perhaps a victim of his ownself…
i'm not attacking vee. he's a SG + he didn't fit/learn the offense
it is what it is—him at PG would have been a disaster. but chris’ minutes should not have gone to him, especially if jt3 knew he was gonna transfer.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Stupid coaching?
My point exactly. During the season and post-season, when good coaching is need the most it seems that Georgetown is a well coach team. And JTIII has no answers during his presser.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
RIF. playing Vee would have been stupid coaching.
and he didn’t. which was smart.
slaps forehead
by thejerseytornado on Apr 18, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Macklin would not have been on this team..
5 year senior bro. Mack is a lil older than Hibbert, and It took him 4 years to actually be able to make an impact on the college court. He said himself he didn’t put the time in at Georgetown to make himself better. The coach can only do so much, it’s up to the players to work on there game.
When I played the most improvement in my game came in the offseason, because that gave you time to reflect on what you did well, what you did not do well, and work on improving your deficiencies. In the offseason coaches cannot hold practice, so that responsibility is strictly on the player
by yaboynyp on Apr 18, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
CWright
he was orginally going to NC State but Sendek resigned (so he doesn’t fall under JT3’s class right?)
Also Tony Bethel left during the 1st yr under JT3 correct? Or was he still under Esherick?
you're right about CW
but I don’t see why that would mean he doesn’t count as a JT III recruit…?
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go."
jt3 beat out other coaches the second time around
so it would definitely count
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It's just JT3's style
JT3 is a guy who operates like a lot of other college and professional coaches. He only trusts a select group of players, and he has a dog house that is at times difficult and occasionally impossible to get out of. That’s just the kind of guy he is. It’s high stakes night in and night out in the Big East and the Hoyas run a precision offense. There are very few transfers that I felt like have hurt us a lot. Mostly just Macklin and even then it was really HIS decision. This is not a problem as long as he doesn’t lose talented players who he would otherwise be playing frequently.
High fives only on three pointers.
by TheYellofAllYells on Apr 18, 2011 10:34 AM EDT reply actions
When is the "talent" going to shine through?
It hasn’t been visible to me. He’s letting guys walk to cover his recruiting/coaching mistakes.
by 30yrHoyafan on Apr 18, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
so
is there anything you think JT3 does well? would you like to change coaches right now? i get the feeling that 2 BE Championships, 1 BET Title, 1 other BET Finals appearance, 1 Final Four, and 5 players drafted in the NBA is under-peforming to you?
bottom line this season and last were disappointing. there is almost an entirely new group of key players joining the team this fall. i’d like to see what happens with this new group.
for me, the whole vee vs. coach thing has gotten to be like sammie and ronnie on jersey shore. i’m over it. time to watch the hoyas through the windshield not the rearview.
He wore the patch, a Georgetown warm-up jacket and a long chain around his neck with a photograph of Tupac Shakur dangling from it.
by Victor Page's Broomstick on Apr 18, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
2 other BET Finals appearances!! 2008 and 2010.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
right now
Vee is sending Arvin a BBM to meet him for lunch at the Tombs.
He wore the patch, a Georgetown warm-up jacket and a long chain around his neck with a photograph of Tupac Shakur dangling from it.
by Victor Page's Broomstick on Apr 18, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sad to see Vee go
but lets not overstate his contributions to the team here. JT3 knows what he is doing, otherwise he wouldn’t have had the success he has already enjoyed.
High fives only on three pointers.
by TheYellofAllYells on Apr 18, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it is a bit of this
Macklin mentioned that he felt staff gave all of its attention to the guys who were playing, and not much to those who werent which is one of the reasons he transferred. Vee seemed to be saying the same through his tweets. I think there is a legitmate quesiton as to whether JTIII does enough to keep the bench happy. I know 90% + of his success is based on the guys playing, but you need to do more to keep a happy locker room and I am not sold JTIII is a good track record on that.
But again, I am fine with “trading” Vee if means making room for the All-Met Player of the Year
by bunk moreland on Apr 18, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
you could add JRivers as well (taking a hit in the transfer realm), b/c he was the Hoyas perimeter defender, yes even though he was horrid offensively at least he did play decent defense…..
sent Rivers to Indiana
I think of it as payback for PE Jr…more than happy with that trade
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go."
Transfers=Recruiting Mistakes
We have not yet lost a starter or a player who was even close to that. Yes, one player (Macklin) who might have projected as a starter the next year – and Rivers would have been helpful. Remember, though, that Macklin was not the player he is today – and took another year (due to transfer restriction) to get to where he is today. I think JTIII actually did a good job picking up Julian Vaughn to fill the Macklin gap. Vaughn was a 7.6 points/ 5.3 rebounds guy vs. Macklin’s 11.1 points / 5.5 rebounds over the last two years. Adjusted for offensive tempo and playing styles, I am not sure that we lost too much in that trade. I think adding Patrick Jr. was also an inspired move.
The real question is why did JTIII recruit Nikita, Omar, Rivers, etc??? I would like to believe that playing basketball at Georgetown would give you a lot more options.Sadly, all of those guys saw meaningful minutes…….and we should be glad that they moved on to make room for more/better players. Henry Sims has also proven to be a questionable recruit, but it may have looked differently 3 years ago.
Macklin moved for style of play (and perhaps coach chemistry issues) and I believe that he did the right thing. I also think that the year off helped him immensely. Vee moved for lack of playing time and the prospect of lack of playing time given new recruits. Maybe also a coach chemistry issue (but maybe not). I still cannot explain why he did not get more minutes.
This year’s recruiting class looks good and I am glad to see that the later commits were quality players – rather than roster fill ins. I would almost prefer that we operate at less than 100% scholarships if we can’t land a quality player that year.
We are (rightly) obsessed with the transfers from Georgetown, but I have not seen any data which suggests that this is truly unusual in the college basketball world. While there may be coach chemistry issues out there, I put it down to mostly giving scholarships to players that never really belonged on the team in the first place.
With paranoia,
Kids want Pt..
If they don’t get it they transfer where they think they will get some..
I wish there was a middle option in the vote
I would say, “slightly.”
The Macklin and Rivers’ transfers were the most damning to me. Macklin was in line to potentially be our starting center (or start alongside Monroe, that would’ve been awesome). Say what you will about Rivers, but he was a lockdown defender, and our 2007 and 2008 teams don’t go as far without him. He provided depth at the point guard spot. But I think he also had a bad attitude, so in hindsight, not so sad to see him go.
I felt bad for Vee for not getting more PT, especially after Wright’s injury. He generally looked good throughout the year in his limited minutes. I put this one on JT3. Hopefully we don’t get at a point next year where we are light at the guard spot and people are saying “We miss Vee.”
If the only transfer we have the offseason, I’d say we are still fine, especially with the addition of Porter. Transfers are fairly normal in major college basketball these days, but yes, it seems like we have a proprotionately high number of them.
If we can average one transfer or less per year, I’d say we are doing OK. It also depends on which types of players transfer: potential starters, serviceable reserves, or should be benchwarmers.
do we want another transfer?
we only have one remaining scholarship for 2012 and are going after a ton of players.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 18, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
for-sho
as long as the transfer isn’t named markel or hollis.
He wore the patch, a Georgetown warm-up jacket and a long chain around his neck with a photograph of Tupac Shakur dangling from it.
by Victor Page's Broomstick on Apr 18, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet by the time the clock strikes zero..
in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season, some on this board and others will be screaming “We miss Vee”
I think what’s at issue here is what type of players do we need to be successful. The majority of guys who have transferred out are not those type of guys. The guys we have coming in are all long skilled athletes, and 3 has won with those types in the past. Sometimes you need to take a step back to take two forward, and although I think we will be average at best next year, I think beyond that we will see this program get back to competing at a high level.
I agree loss of Macklin and Rivers hurt us, but I will argue the year off the court for Macklin probably helped him more than any year he had on the court. Allowed him to refocus on what he needs to do to get better, and his failures at Gtown had to humble him, and force him to realize nothing is going to be given to you no matter how highly regarded you are coming out of high school. Rivers ego more than anything else seems to be holding him back. He though he was a superstar, he’s not. He was the same player he was at Gtown at Indiana, except he was doing it for a horrible basketball team.
Turnover in major college bball is nothing out of the ordinary, kids want Pt, kids get homesick, have family issues etc… It’s funny how were focusing on transfers, when none of them except Macklin even proved to be a descent college player, and it took him 4 years to become that.
I myself would rather focus on who we do have rather than who we don’t.
I agree,
Big-time coaches today have to keep refreshing the pipeline due to the unpredictability of how “star” high-school players will adapt and develop (including ones that will suprise on the upside and leave early for the NBA). I almost all cases cited the leavers were not going to become significant contributors so better (for them and the program) to cut losses and move on. Also, as much as we’d like every recruit to be a McDonald’s All-World, having 13 of them on the roster would still end in disappointment for some. JTIII gets my benefit of the doubt for now, and I will be watching with great anticipation (and expectation) to see how the current group of underclassmen develops. Unless you have a Kemba (or Iverson), I’d much prefer to take my chances with a longer, stronger board team than one that relies on consistently shooting the 3.
"Joy to the fishies in the deep blue sea..."
hollis is definitely staying, right?
right?
by RandyMossStoleMySweatshirt on Apr 18, 2011 3:21 PM EDT reply actions
This points to the real issue
I think if we look at these transfers from a “talent-in”/“talent-out” standpoint, it looks alright for the program. However, it would become a problem if players start to feel that transferring is a good first option if they are struggling picking up the offense, beating out competition for PT, etc. It’s bad for locker room when you have multiple people jumping ship each year, regardless of the reason.
We’re not at that point yet, and there’s been no indication whatsoever that Hollis is going to be anything less than the best player on next year’s team; but we shouldn’t have to be looking over our shoulders at every player that will have to fight for minutes going forward.
depth issues
Good read on Sanford’s departure leaving a hole in the backcourt depth
http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2011/04/sanfords-departure-leaves-georgetown.html
it gets facts wrong
starks is a natural pg
bowen didnt play due to injury
when macklin transferred, vaughn filled his minutes the next year
no way benimon expects minutes
lol @ all the frosh demanding pt next year. if gtown has a pt playing time problem, who doesnt?
by thejerseytornado on Apr 19, 2011 9:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Saying Vee didn't KNOW the system is an excuse
Seems like he was productive whever he got extended minutes. So your facts are wrong. Saying that, is an excuse for the apologists. Before he left people were hoping Benimon left. Now that its Vee, “he didn’t know the system”
Seems like he was productive whever he got extended minutes. So your facts are wrong.
How is something that "seems like" suddenly "facts"?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Apr 19, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
30yr Why do you even watch anymore??
I mean it’s obvious 3 is a horrible coach who can’t recruit, the program is in terrible shape because of him, our players never improve, and we have no shot at advancing in the postseason. It must be horrible for you to have to suffer through these miserable games that the Hoyas play. Maybe you should just quit the Hoyas and become a Duke fan, i hear their coach is awesome and they win a lot!
Probably right...
But dayum why so much negativity Spoon?? That can’t be healthy my man..
Frustration perhaps
but yeah it’s very unhealthy, I wondering how he would feel if he was a Rutgers fan….smh!
I’m excited to see these new Hoyas suit up and take care of business though!
ummm...productive doesn't mean he knew the system
chuckers look productive, especially in a spot minutes. But if you watched the movement of players, who was getting waved to move (a sign they’re in the wrong spot), who didn’t make many passes, etc. you can tell who wasn’t playing within the system. Vee wasn’t in the system.
It happens in all sports—Plaxico Burress was productive as hell in Pittsburgh. He also drew up plays for himself instead of doing what was called in from the sidelines. Pitchers and catchers have to have conferences because they fight over what to throw when. Don’t even get me started on soccer players and systems (in short: cristian ronaldo’s main flaw is his inability to adapt to any systematic offense as well as he should).
Vee is a talent basketball player who didn’t fit the team. I hope he does well. I hope the team does well. but he didn’t play within the offense, and no coach is going to play a guy who doesn’t follow the system significant minutes.
by thejerseytornado on Apr 20, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Vee...................
Man I really liked this guy off the bench he added depth, but I also felt that he really wasn’t playing in the scheme of the offense. Had a good three point shot that was pretty reliable, if he only learned the system and played to it I think he would have had the minutes.
Now that we have a depth issue in the backcourt who is left to pick from? Is there any good transfers out there that can shot the 3, drive the lane and play off of contact, with good handles, and an IQ for this system???
WE NEED CW!!!!!!!!!
We need a 6-2, 190lb bruiser, w/3 lungs, and a sharp shooters eye!!!!!!!
Eastcoatteddy
by Melvin M. Tuggle III on Apr 18, 2011 9:03 PM EDT reply actions
People forget
Big John had his share of transfers, many of whom were drafted or went on to crack NBA rosters. Other than Macklin that seems unlikely with JTIII;s transfers.
Examples:
Anthony Jones
Anthony Tucker
John Turner
Grady Mateen
Michael Graham
David Edwards
"If Austin Freeman gets a pick at the hotel across the street, you go with him"
And me, If he asks I'll carry his luggage.
by PerryMcDonald'sRightCross on Apr 19, 2011 8:22 AM EDT reply actions
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