Air Force to Stay Put; Who Should Big East Offer Now?
Latest news is that Air Force has announced it has no intentions of joining the Big East for the 2013-14 season. As it currently stands, the Big East has 10 football schools, but will likely add an 11th in Navy before all is settled. Some have said that the 12th spot will come down to Memphis and Temple, which would be fantastic from a basketball perspective.
Navy is reportedly joining as a football-only school, which means that there will be 16 basketball and 11 football schools in the conference. Adding Temple or Memphis will give the Big East 12 football and 17 basketball (and other sports) schools. 12 teams is the magic number from a football-perspective, as it allows the conference to create divisions and play a conference championship at the end of the season. 17 teams for basketball certainly seems unwieldy but it is only one more than the current Big East has. Keep the 18 game schedule and cut the number of home-and-home series down to two. And much to the chagrin of everyone from Bristol, the Big East remains a very strong basketball conference that hopefully negotiates a fantastic TV-rights contract with Comcast/NBCU.
- Memphis - has desperately tried to get into the Big East since expansion rumors started floating around a few summers ago. It has impressively rebuilt its program after a late-90s swoon, although it ran into issues with John Calipari and the usual John Calipari shadiness. Georgetown holds a 9-2 head-to-head record against Memphis and is set to play them again in a couple of weeks
- Temple - has maintained an excellent program despite often going unnoticed while playing in the A-10. Fun fact: Temple ranks 6th in all-time NCAA Tournament victories. Temple used to be a football-only member of the Big East but was kicked out in 2004 due to lack of institutional and fan support. Now it has a better program than many of the schools that voted for its dismissal. Temple owns a 22-14 head-to-head advantage over Georgetown.
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I want Memphis
1) It’s a lit nicer to visit than Philly
2) I’ve really enjoyed the back and forth between the teams since 07/08 and would love to see that high level of competition continue.
3) Gives us an additional TV market.
4) Memphis will finally be forced to face good conference competition.
Let's settle this with a poll.
by wadetandy on Dec 8, 2011 8:24 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I think we need to keep developing the west...
…to partner up with Boise and SD State – I say add UNLV or Nevada for all sports. Good for basketball and football and further western expansion…
I’d love Memphis but realize with this being football driven, other options we as a fan base haven’t discussed may be more intriguing. Who knows, may we get turned down by Navy too (they don’t need the money, and why give up the flexibility?) and we get Memphis and Temple, but something about Temple just makes me think they’re not going to get invited.
I like UNLV
but their football is almost worse than Memphis. Nevada is ok, but smaller than UNLV and may be further west than SDSU. Would rather add memphis as it may make Louisville marginally less likely to bolt if/when Big-12 comes calling and adding Temple just pisses off Villanova.
by bunk moreland on Dec 8, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
more support for your grand unification theory in CFB
I think you may be nostradumus when all is said and done and that we end up an NFL lite super conference of the best, err richest 30 programs who form their own governance, play-offs and TV deals
by bunk moreland on Dec 8, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
one good thing about that article
that i didnt think was going to happen, is that it will be for football-only.
worst case is that the top 30 schools govern themselves for all sports, and there goes March Madness.
i really hope that if/when this happens, Cuse, BC and Pitt are left out.
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
Did some quick math...
BC: no way in hell
Cuse: Can’t see it
Pitt: MAYBE
by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Dec 8, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
but how does this make sense for all other sports?
Is it really possible/financially feasible for all other D1 sports to compete without respect to geography? How much would it force increases in athletics budgets for soccer, lacrosse, cross country, etc etc etc (teams far larger than basketball) to have to travel to Nevada for competitions? I can’t imagine that the Gtown budget could readily swing that. (Maybe the cost difference between that and Memphis is minimal?… but I doubt it.)
I agreed, but admittedly, I'm curious...
How much more expensive is it to fly to Las Vegas versus Milwaukee? or South Bend? or Tampa? I mean, I know it would be a major pain in the ass with time zones, but you’d think we could hook up with Southwest from BWI to LV just as cheaply as whatever we’re already spending. Maybe not, but I’m not ta ravel guru – I’m just thinking about how much air travel there already is and I’m admittedly curious how much worse it would be. I’d actually think the cost of getting to a city would be a bigger factor in this. Take a place like Syracuse, with a smallish airport. I think that’s expensive. Cincinnati is stupidly expensive. Vegas always seems somewhat reasonable. I guess when we’re comparing a bus trip to Philly versus a flight, there’s no question what costs more. But a flight to Greenville NC (ECU) versus Vegas? No idea, really.
If you’re a western school, sure, again, the time zone issue is real, but those schools already fly nearly 100% of the time so I’m curious what the incremental cost is to them.
+2 on that heinous mini terminal built from double-wides
I will look on your treasures, gypsy. Is this understood?
by Lord Humongous on Dec 9, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
For what it's worth
I’d love to add Memphis – just trying to acknowledge that Boise and SD St. may not like that.
The way I see it...
Universities will always use Football revenue to fund other sports. Ditching the NCAA = more football revenue, which more than off-sets increased costs for other sports.
by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Dec 8, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
I voted for Temple
Because that’s what I would rather see, and I’m tired of all this “adding media markets” stuff. But for the reasons that wadetandy lists, Memphis might actually be the smarter move.
What are these assertions!?
trust me
i don’t give a damn about media markets personally, but the Big East and its member schools do, so if they can make some sort of decision that prevents us from ever having to have this discussion again, then I’ll be happy.
Let's settle this with a poll.
Just venting my frustration with the whole process
As I said, wadetandy’s reasons (including media market) do matter.
Another thing that I don’t like about Memphis, which is obviously not something that the actual decisionmakers should consider, is the fact that it is another C-USA school. We’re about to add three of those to the five we grabbed last time around. Adding Memphis would mean nine C-USA schools, out of sixteen in the hoops league. But I guess it won’t “feel like the Big East” no matter who we pick up as replacements.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Dec 8, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Temple
Geography be damned, but I think it makes sense to hook up with schools of similar size and organization. Memphis really only wants in on the BE because it wants to be in a BCS conference, and at this point the BE is the lowest on the totem pole.
With ‘Cuse, Pitt, and WVU gone, we can’t sell ourselves as THE premier basketball league anymore. Yes, we are miles ahead of C-USA, but clearly competitive bball isn’t going to keep big schools around for long if the megaconferences go looking for more members. What is to stop Memphis from joining a reconstituted Big 12 in three years? The same goes for any other big public program, including UNLV.
Temple is a great bball program, and lately it has become a solid football school. They have a way better team than Memphis right now, which should keep the big schools content. The more we can hitch our wagons to the Novas, Temples, and Marquettes of the world: bball-first schools who will always be committed to maintaining upper-tier programs, the more confident I will feel in the long run, because there is no way all of those schools will collapse at once if realignment continues.
Also, it’s too bad that we couldn’t get SDSU as a bball member, but I would love it if the BE would make that a priority going forward.
temple?
They have 24,000 undergrads, not exactly similar size. Its a state school.
http://education-portal.com/directory/school/Temple_University.html
Cuse showing respect or trying to "paint" burnt bridges?
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/12/west_virginia_syracuse_take_di.html
"I think we’re just seeing what happens," Gross said today while taking part in the Sports Business Journal/IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum. We’ve been respectful of the entire process. With John making his announcement today, I think they’re putting together what the new Big East is going to look like. As they go forward to put together multimedia deals and all that stuff, they’re going to need us to move out of the way. We’re waiting for that.
"We want our departure to be more of a mutual respect for each other."
It is definitely the latter. No one has thought of anyone else but themselves in this conference realignment debacle, and that won’t change. I think Cuse is worried that its biggest rivals (and home games) are going to boycott them (Gtown, UConn, Nova) and Cuse needs them a whole of a hell lot more than we need them for local OCC games.
Good talk.
"Mutual respect" = blindsiding conference by announcing defection to ACC?
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Dec 8, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
OOC games?
Playing Georgetown, Nova, or UConn OOC would require Boeheim to leave the state of New York prior to January. Not happening.
I still don't think Boeheim plays more than 1 season in the acc
and honestly I think next season will be his last
Take No Prisoners, especially if they wear Orange.
by hoyabballownsall on Dec 8, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Assuming Cuse does honor the 27 month rule
I don’t think he coaches a single ACC game. And I thought that before the Bernie Fine stuff emerged.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Dec 8, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I'll be the outlier I'm sure but I still think it's in our best interest
For the football side of the conference to be absolutely rock solid as can be. Keep pushing on USAFA and BYU for football-only membership (although of course BYU would be a good pickup for all-sports). I think demonstrating the strength of the current 10-team football program over the next couple of years will do a lot to burnish the league’s reputation and should bring at least one of the current fence-sitters over to our side.
This makes a ton of sense
but whose left that the BE has not already tried and/or gotten for football? Maybe ECU. BYU won’t budge off their ND lite deal and why travel to Provo for other sports. AFA meh. Would rather we push Army for football only. Then maybe AFA would reconsider.
Memphis makes most sense in terms of geography, basketball and having a football team. And who knows, with BE revnue bump maybe their football could actually improve. With a decent TV deal, I would try to get BC back.
by bunk moreland on Dec 8, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
absolutely agree
no chance we take BC back. they would come back in much worse shape than they left. they are irrelevant in the general sports landscape.
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
and uconn would walk if we even approach BC
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
how about Penn State?
fits geographic footprint, good in football, replaces the out-going isolated child molester univervisty
by bunk moreland on Dec 8, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Tough choice
I mean, as far as lunch documentation goes, I’d argue that Memphis offers more opportunities for casual BBQ (Rendezvous, Interstate) and though I’m growing tired of the usual Philly cheesesteak fare, I could stare at the roast pork sandwich from DiNic’s all day.
Casually.
We really look at the big picture here at CH
"That is crap. It is unfair."
by Iwillpaytheway!! on Dec 8, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I've been to Memphis
It’s AWFUL. Philly has the Reading Terminal Market PLUS Pat’s and Geno’s.
Although, if you go to Memphis and don’t go to Gus’, you’re missing out.
you just needed to ask me...
philly’s lunch documentation options are staggeringly outstanding. trust me. there’s a reason midtownlunch.com expanded to philadelphia first outside of the NYC.
by thejerseytornado on Dec 8, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but we already have a team in Philly
Memphis opens up a new market for documentation (says the guy who voted for Temple).
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Dec 8, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Screw you, Buick Human Highlight Reel
and your stealing of my errant clicks.
Let's settle this with a poll.
Here are my thoughts
1) While we’re choosing between Memphis and Temple in the short term, eventually both will be added.
2) The big east will not stop at 12 we’ll move to at least 14 for football and maybe even 16. This is where who ever doesn’t get picked now will be added. I think it’ll either be 14-18, 16-18, or 16-20.
3) Navy is on board they won’t join the conference till later, but they’re pretty much signed sealed and delivered.
IMG Intercollegiate Sports Forum going on now
Some interesting info leaking on Twitter: #SBJIAF
- NBC interested in adding programming now have versus and 11 regional channels
- B10 Delany taking shots at 16 team conferences
- Verne Lundquist agrees that ESPN had role in shaping conference realignment
Good talk.
NBC pres says it wont over pay for content, like the Pac10 deal – nice shot at Fox and ESPN
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
Someone employed by the Notredame Broadcasting Company actually said that?
by HoyaSmacksYa on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
speaking of notre dame
How long do they stay independent? Do they join the big 10 next year or if they join the big east manifest destinty league does that mean it actually survives?
Take No Prisoners, especially if they wear Orange.
by hoyabballownsall on Dec 8, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
We're sticking with the Big East brand
The western teams are just in the Manifest Destiny division.
by HoyaSmacksYa on Dec 8, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I love this Idea
The Big East can have the “Eastern Division” and the “Manifest Destiny” division. Seriously, after “Leaders and Legends” I say we go all in.
by WallaceAtTheLineShooting2 on Dec 8, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
All depends on how long they can convince NBC to stick with/rewew that contract
They make too much money to do anything else while that’s an options.
Of course this means that they have to start being successful and winning games soon.
Let's settle this with a poll.
true
and thinks the winter olympics is valuable
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's a package deal
Sort of like “Pay ludicrous money for the rights to this awesome elite east coast elite basketball league and we’ll let you televise some pretty good transcontinental football games for practically no extra charge!!!”
by HoyaSmacksYa on Dec 8, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I voted Memphis but if we do get Temple
It would be interesting to see what happens with the Wells Fargo Center and if Owls would start to play any home games there. Anyone have any idea how tight Nova’s contract is with the owners?
i think they play some games
there already
they do. both nova and temple move a small number of games to Well Fargo Center
each year. temple.duke recently was down there, for example.
nova has 4 games there every season. temple is less frequent, but nova doesn’t get that center all to itself.
by thejerseytornado on Dec 8, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
nova uses it more when it's not an NCAA tourney site
years when the FU Center is hosting a tourney round Nova plays fewer games there so it’s not a “home court” and they can get placed there in March (obviously, unlike us, their oncampus arena is big enough to allow this). Sure Temple would do the same thing.
by BornonthisBandWagon on Dec 8, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
basketball only league?
To the realignment gurus: is there anything in NCAA rules that would prohibit schools from forming a basketball only league? Obviously the tv contracts would be less lucrative than the football ones that include basketball as a sideshow, but it seems that there are plenty of schools with good basketball programs and little TV revenue (or TV revenue secured by strength of program or other unknown reasons (i.e., ND)), that could benefit from bonding together, creating a basketball powerhouse conference, and then splitting money among the programs. If basketball could be divorced from football (and, ideally, other D1 sports), it would seem that would solve our problems?
Per NCAA rules, you can only be a 1 sport member in a conference in one sport
Which means Georgetown and Villanova would be ineligible for a basketball only league due to their football programs.
The exceptions would be for things like “your home conference doesn’t sponsor the sport” (Most hockey and wrestling schools use this exception) and “you only want to be D1 in only 1 sport” (John’s Hopkins lax is the prime example of this)
hmmm
Didn’t know that, thanks.
And we can’t move all our other sports to the Patriot League? Or just dump the football program entirely so as to be able to divorce basketball from the rest?
We could do either of those (or both)
But I don’t think the administration is ready to voluntarily anger many alumni by decimating the programs that they support in the effort to save just basketball.
I think if ever a decision is made to move more sports into the Patriot League, then basketball will be going with the rest because the school has raised the white flag and decided to give up on athletics
Of the over 800 student-athletes on campus
a mere 13 are Men’s Basketball players. Somewhere north of 98% of our alumni who played a sport while at Georgetown played a sport other than Men’s Basketball. The university gives its alumni enough reason to not support the school; indiscriminately destroying programs would be crazy.
A better line of attack in my opinion
is remembering, as Crack Baby Athletic Association taught us, that NCAA rules are worth little more than the paper they’re written on. If the schools that matter change their mind due to enough interest from member schools, the rules will get thrown out at will.
Unless Memphis makes big strides quickly in football
I think Temple is the safe play here. Their football program is in a MUCH better position than Memphis’ (which has won 5 games in 3 years and has pretty terrible facilities) and their basketball program is strong and very stable (Dunphy probably won’t ever leave there and may be one of the most underrated coaches in the country).
I like Memphis for a lot of the reasons listed here (travel, better basketball team, though only slightly), but Temple is the safer play from a conference stability and prestige standpoint (from the football standpoint, which we aren’t directly involved in, but keeps the conference relevant and attractive to TV money, other schools, recruits, etc.)
"Basketball fights last two punches. Make sure you throw both of them." - John Thompson Jr.
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Anybody know if any Alum
are trying to catch on in NBA training camps which open tomorrow.
DaJuan I would guess will sign with someone. But any others – Free, CW ?
Is PE Jr signed for NO roster or just a training camp invitee?
Dajuan and PE Jr are both at Hornets Training Camp.
Sweetny is at Celtics Training camp.
This years players are playing with their euro teams.
by hoyasincebirth on Dec 8, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for the update HSB
I knew the boys were in europe, did not know if they would come back for a training camp invite. With the lockout they never really had a chance.
At least with the Chris Paul deal being nixed, the Hornets have less players coming in, opening up spots for Summers and PEJR
by bunk moreland on Dec 9, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions

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