Positive Post-Game Prognosis: On the Road at St. John's
I'll be honest if ever there was a need for this column, It's now.
One game is an aberration but three games in a row of poor shooting is a full-on slump. Yup, we're officially in a slump, it happens. Better to get them out of the way now - it will pass.
(More Positivity After the Jump)
HoyaProspectus sums up the reaction to this game perfectly:
As a fan, watching a loss like this against a team that we perceive as inferior can be frustrating. But in truth, this was a pick 'em game, one that didn't go the Hoyas way.
That's the bottom line.
We can quibble about the mistakes and who should have done what. We are obviously capable of playing better. But isn't that a good thing? I think it's still obvious that the true level of the team is a lot closer to the team that beat twelve good opponents than the team that lost to three good opponents.
This was a toss up game on an opponent's court, just like the Temple, ODU, and Missouri games. We pulled out the first two and fell just short these past two times. It happens. It's tough out there on the road.
We played in a hostile environment against a team that's playing at the top of it's game right now. We had a lot of things go wrong for us: a missed bunny here, a horrendous call there, and that's the difference in the game. A team that shoots 66% from FT on the year shot 78% from the line (I called this happening pregame they always seem to make their free throws against us). Jim Burr was horrendous as always. The charge call against Chris down 1 was a joke. That one call was enough to decide that call. They call a block instead of a charge we're up 2 assuming Chris hits his free throw. We make the correct plays we win despite the bad calls of which there were many others. But while it hurts more to lose in such a close fashion it certainly bodes better to lose close than it does to get blown out. We hung tough despite our shooting woes and Jim Burr (I had a sinking feeling as soon as his name flashed at the bottom of the screen).
Despite the dissapointing outcome there are a lot of positives to take out of this game:
- It's a learning experience. I know some people don't believe there's anything you can learn from losing that you can't learn from winning a game like this. They're wrong. Losing this game will make us better. Others may argue that haven't these players done enough losing over there careers to learn the lessons that taking a lost can yield. I point to the team we just played St. John's. They've lost more than enough over their careers, but isn't it clear their losses to St. Bonaventure and Fordham have made them a better team? Not just the players, but coaches learn things from losses as well.This loss will make us a better team.
- We out rebounded St. John's by 11 and had higher rebounding % numbers as well. We did a good job rebounding against a tough physical team. Remember mistakes and bad things always stand out in our minds more so than when things go right. I'm sure there has been much complaining about offensive rebounds by St. John's, which is understandable because there were some at critical times down the stretch, but for the game we did a fine job keeping them off the glass and did a good job crashing the offensive glass ourselves.
- It's still early. We started out 1-2 in conference play in 06-07 also: A win at home over ND before dropping games to an unranked Nova at home and then @ a Top Ten Pitt. We then proceeded to rattle off eleven straight wins and only dropped two the rest of the year. And oh, we had already lost three games before conference play even started.
- We have plenty of time to dig ourselves out of this minor hole. It's an 18 game conference season. There are 15 more games to play. I'd rather drop a few early and work out of it rather than be riding high and fade down the stretch. Let's be honest if we make it to the Sweet 16 is anyone going to remember we lost to St. John's in the first week of January?
- We got minimal contributions from our Big Three and still were one possession away from a win. Our guards have a normal game we win this game in a blow out. We are a good talented team to have been able to be on the verge of winning this game despite the lack of production from the guards. Our Interior players carried us and almost beat a good big east team essentially by themselves.
Player Evaluations:
- Hollis Thompson: Well people asked for a big game from Hollis before the game, and boy did he deliver. He led the team in points and rebounds! Simply amazing game for Hollis. He was our only consistent three-point shooter, but also scored on a variety of drives and midrange jumpers. He was also our best player defensively having the best defensive rating on the team.He also didn't turn over the ball and had a steal.
- Julian Vaughn: 8 points 5 rebounds and 3 blocks. Julian was our second most productive player. He was also our second best defender. He continued his improved FT shooting. Would've had an even better game if not for the refs who called him for a bogus offensive foul( giving him an extra turnover) and over the back call (taking away an offensive rebound).
- Chris Wright: 7 points could've had a couple more if not for the refs. Lead the team with 4 assists. He also had the highest offensive rating of player who saw serious minutes. Played tough despite tweaking his ankle in the second half.
- Austin Freeman: Austin wasn't himself, but still managed 6 points and 4 rebounds and 2 assists. It's all down hill from here. Definitely drew a couple more fouls than what was called.
- Jason Clark: Still in a bit of a slump shooting, but managed to contribute in some other ways. He grabbed 7 rebounds and did a good job down the stretch of drawing fouls and hitting his free throws.
- Henry Sims: Henry killed St. John's with his mid range jumper. He also had 3 rebounds 1 block and a steal.
- Nate Lubick: Did a great job drawing fouls and then converting at the FT line. He also did a good job on the defensive end. He also had 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 0 turnovers. One of Nate's better games.
- Vee Sanford: Had a nice mid range jumper in his limited minutes.
- Jerrelle Benimon: Saw limited minutes.
Onto West Virginia. We can take revenge on St. John's at Verizon in three weeks.
Stay Casual, my friends.
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wright thinks its a slump
based on his quote after the game.
comparison to 2007 is a good one.
losses to ody, oregon and duke – all three of which turned out to be top 50 rpi teams.
losses to nova and pitt – both of which were top 20 rpi teams.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
Being at MSG last night
I dont think you can say it was too hostile a crowd. Good Hoya turnout, and they were vocal for the entire game. If we have trouble playing in the garden when 40% (at least) of the crowd is pulling for the hoyas, God help us.
that’s fair, I figured we had a number of fans there, but it only came across on TV once. The fans aren’t always the toughest part about playing on the road. It’s shooting in a gym that you don’t shoot in every day. It’s not sleeping in your own bed. It’s not knowing where the dead spots in the court are or being familiar with the dimensions of the court. And it’s most definitely getting the 50/50 calls go against you.
by hoyasincebirth on Jan 4, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget the homer refs
Tons of Hoyas in the crowd though, and we were loud, chanting, etc.
by Lord Humongous on Jan 4, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
in other news, what do we want to see tonight?
pitt at prov
uconn at nd
wvu at depaul
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
I think ND pulls the upset....
but we shall see….
I probably need a new handle, but I'm too lazy to think of one
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jan 4, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
If we're a 3 man show
Huskies are a one man show. I’d like to see Pitt pushed by the Friars.
by Lord Humongous on Jan 4, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
That's only a rankings upset
UConn’s stock was the only one in the BE that was more inflated than ours.
Pitt loss always helps
Although you might not know from reading some comments, we’re not eliminated from BE contention, much less getting a good seed later on. You always want an easier chase.
West Virginia win, UConn win, Providence win. Parity is what we want now.
High fives only on three pointers.
by TheYellofAllYells on Jan 4, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Parity?
Already? There are 15 games to go in the conference season. An ND win just shows how hard it is to win on the road. A UConn win draws out the Georgetown naysayers.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jan 4, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
aw geez
The Hoyas will be ok. And will beat St. John’s in the rematch.
The East Coast Bias - St. John's blog with midwestern interludes.
So who knows why...
…each year we come out looking like a borderline elite team against quality non-conference opponents but then look like hammered dogshit once conference play starts? It’s hard to draw any comparisons between the team that played at Mizzou and Memphis and what we were forced to look at last night.
I can’t figure out if we’re simply now playing against stronger, more athletic defenses that have a clue how to defend the backdoor cut, or whether something else has changed. Someone help me out. Please.
by TouomouIsMyHomie on Jan 4, 2011 6:00 PM EST reply actions
conditioning
preparation
motivation
scouting
coaching
luck
could be a ton of reasons why it happens. also happens to a lot of other teams at different points. no one goes undefeated. all teams will lose 4-5 games during the course of a season.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jan 4, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
i doubt Duke is losing 4-5 games this season in the ACC...
I probably need a new handle, but I'm too lazy to think of one
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jan 4, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
they did last year
ACC is also a very weak conference this year
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jan 4, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
if u thought georgetown would be able to match what duke does in the acc this year, you were always in for a very rude awakening.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jan 4, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Too much focus on trending
Need to focus more on individual games – not on trying to prognosticate the Hoyas’ record 5 games from now based on last night’s (or any night’s result). We suffered a -10 TO ratio in a game with relatively few possessions. We actually were the better team in set offense, but we needed a lot to overcome giving the ball up so much. We almost did.
Pleased
but Napier’s shot gave me a little bit of a flashback
by HookerInTheLane on Jan 4, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
we all know it but seriously
the big east is just a beast
depaul hanging with wvu too
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jan 4, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
I called all 3 games.
WV barely escapes. Depaul is not the same terrible team. They’ll win multiple games this year.
So if Pitt only beat Providence in the last minute,
and St. John’s only beat Providence in the last minute, that means they’re about equal, right?
Feeling much better about last night’s loss already.
by Vee Sanford's Next-door Neighbor on Jan 5, 2011 2:44 AM EST reply actions
ST JOHNS IS A GOOD TEAM!!!!
how many different ways do people have to say it.
vegas said it with the spread.
computer said it with rpi
ken pom said it with whatever the hell ken pom does
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jan 5, 2011 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe but...
They are also a team that lost to St. Marys, St. Bonoventure and Fordham already this year. Sure they are playing better now. Lavin has certainly had an impact. But its still sobering to go 1-2 against three teams that are not conference elites with the only win coming against one of the weakest teams in the conference.
Would rather have lost to Missouri than St. Johns…
Lets not shrug and make convenient justifications about how great St. Johns is. Lets play better when its clear we need to. We all saw the last three games. Offensive execution has been inconsistent at best. Open shots havent been dropping. Defense hasnt kept anyone off the offensive boards. Turnover differential has been negative in all three games. And West Virginia could easily beat us if we play on that level again. What will we be saying Saturday afternoon if we lose that one? How will we justify it? Lets just play within our abilities and beat them. One game at a time.
Bring back Don Reid
It's not just a shooting slump
I didn’t read all the comments, so apologies if I’m repeating a sentiment that has already been communicated above. This is an offensive slump—to lay the blame only on poor shooting and bad luck is just wrong. The offense hasn’t looked particularly lively since the Memphis game. The Temple loss was understandable—they’re a hard-working, aggressive team that plays a match-up zone that’s extremely effective against an offense like ours.
The problem is that we’re going back to the same crap we’ve seen for the last few years, which is that we go through periods where the offensive simply isn’t executed. This team has already proven they can win games without hoisting up threes, so simply missing shots isn’t a legitimate excuse. The entire offensive system is predicated on movement off the ball, sharp cuts, and good looks, and there has been very little of that in the last 120 minutes from the Hoyas. There aren’t too many teams in the country that are effective when their 1-4 guys are standing 25 feet from the basket. It used to happen only when we faced a zone, but that wasn’t the case on Monday (nor against DePaul, truth be told). Shots aren’t falling down because they’re not getting good looks (no offense Jason, but the pull-up 3s from 22 feet are not a very efficient way to go).

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