JT3 Believes The Hoyas Will Be Better Next Year Than This Year
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 1:01 PM EDT
in Random Ramblings
51 comments
Our fearless leader, John Thompson III, sat down with the folks at NBE Basketball Report to discuss the prospects for next year's Hoyas.
Not surprisingly, Thompson is very optimistic about next year's team, saying that he thinks it could be better than the 2009-2010 version. I find this hard to believe, considering we beat both Duke and Butler very handily. Then I remembered that we lost to Ohio in the first round of the NCAA Tournament, and I thought "Hmm, maybe ol' JT3 is onto something."
That said, replacing Greg Monroe, who was about as perfect a basketball player could be for the Princeton/Georgetown offense, will be challenging. Unless Julian Vaughn magically became a significantly better passer over the summer, this will be Thompson's first team that doesn't have an absurdly skilled passing big man (Jeff Green, Roy Hibbert, Monroe).
JT3 apologists will claim that he does the most with the least resources and compared to what we could attract to the Hilltop, he's far better. I wasn't a student for the Esherick era, so I never saw the depths of how bad it got, but I believe this will be a big year to see what kind of chops JT3 has as a coach. This Hoyas team will look significantly different than previous variations, as we will rely heavily on the triumvirate of Chris Wright, Austin Freeman and Jason Clark instead of a lethal big man. Can he adjust accordingly?
Read more about JT3's feelings on next year's squad after The Jump
Some other interesting tidbits that came out of the article are below, he also called Chris Wright the leader of next year's team.
On replacing Greg Monroe:
"You don't lose the No. 7 pick in the Draft and not miss him," he said. "It's going to be a group effort [to replace him]. There's not any one person that can step in."
What if Nikita hadn't transferred?
On last year's ups and downs:
"With the group we have coming back, they've been through a lot of successes and disappointing losses," Thompson III said. "I don't think that loss [to Ohio] is going to have an impact, but we want to go further in the tournament."
No shit, Sherlock.
On next year's philosophy:
"We're not going to do things a lot differently," he said. "We're still going to share the ball and guard at the defensive end."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it not guarding on the defensive end that allowed #14 seed Ohio to put up 97 points against us?
On the potential versatility of the 2010-2011 Georgetown Hoyas:
"We'll have more depth and we'll be more experienced," Thompson III said. "I think, with our flexibility, we can play big or small, whichever gives us the best chance to win."
No snarky comment there, that just makes sense.
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delusional
JT3 apologists will claim that he does the most with the least resources and compared to what we could attract to the Hilltop, he’s far better. I wasn’t a student for the Esherick era, so I never saw the depths of how bad it got, but I believe this will be a big year to see what kind of chops JT3 has as a coach.
What does this mean? National Championship or bust? Fire JT3 if he doesn’t get past second round? Fire JT3 if he loses to ODU or Ohio or Rutgers?
He is building a program, not a team.
Nearsightedness isnt far away from blindness.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
When I said the broad term "apologists"
I meant you.
2008 – 2nd round
2009 – NIT
2010 – 1st round
With 2 first round draft picks, 2 2nd round draft picks, and 4 McDonald’s All Americans
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait a second
2007 was the Final Four year though and if you’re going to cite the 2 first round draft picks (and the 2nd rounders), you have to include that team too. No doubt that there’s been a drop off since that huge year and it bears repeating that those 2 first rounders were recruited by Escherick.
Being better than last year is a reasonable expectation (though it’s also setting the bar pretty low) but this will be a good year to showcase where the program is and how high it can go.
That out of the way, Hire Escherick is the consumate apologist
by itsallthatmatters on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm doing what all crappy journalists do
Using statistics to my advantage.
2006 – Sweet 16
2007 – Final Four
HAPPY NOW?
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
good job
now name all the programs in college basketball that have made a final four in the past 4 years. ill save you the trouble. it is 13. by your logic 334 programs should have fired their coaches.
and roy williams and jim calhoun should have been canned after last year FOR FAILING TO MAKE THE NCAA TOURNAMENT WITH MCDONALDS ALL AMERICANS ON THEIR ROSTERS!!!!!!!!!
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
in addition to roy williams and jim calhoun
jim boeheim – back to back NITs in 2007 and 2008 – FIRED
ben howland – no post season tourney in 2010 – FIRED
billy donovan – NIT in 2009 – FIRED
rick pitino – NIT in 2006 – FIRED
tom izzo – back to back final fours and no championship – FIRED
coach k – two NCAA flameouts in ’07 and ’08 – FIRED
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I never once said Fired
I agree that he’s brought the program back to prominence and has done a nice job recruiting.
But turning a blind eye to not getting the most out of a roster for 3 straight years is silly, especially considering the turnover we’ve had on a coaching and player level.
It’s unclear to me why that can’t be a discussion without people spazzing out.
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Because you have brought up the discussion many times, using the same BS stats and facts that get teared apart – every time.
Gtown underachieved and overachieved under JT3. Using only the former for your argument is unfair.
You also give no constructive way of improving the team, nor name any realistic options Georgetown has. You don’t look at the entire picture, or what it takes to build, run and maintain a top program.
That is why people spazz out, you cannot look at a few seasons out of context and try to make a point. Put his whole resume out there and then compare.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
with Hire Esherick here. JTIII hasn’t been perfect, but he is an excellent coach who has brought the program back to prominence. It isn’t as though there are a number of available top tier coaches, especially ones that are better than JTIII.
This is probably a bit delusional, but this coming year feels like an overachieving type of year. Big East is still fairly down and Chris and Austin have experience over everyone in the conference.
I don’t think it is bad to say that this is the year that JTIII shows his coaching chops, but I certainly don’t think his future hinges solely on the team’s performance this year.
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
SB Nation
by Chris Haines on Jul 22, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the argument is getting torn apart
All I am saying is that this is a big year for him to show his coaching chops. I have severely backed off the Fire JT3 movement, which was clearly emotional after Ohio, and really dumb.
But this is a big year. If we flame out again in the first round, we will have had 2 McDonald’s All American guards go through 4 years at Georgetown with 1 tournament win, and were paired with Hibbert, Ewing, Monroe, and Summers.
It’s also a big year because it’s such a different team and style than we are accustomed to. So yes, it’s a big year.
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
what does big year mean
What is your success hurdle for a team led by two guards that received national recognition 4 years ago whilst in high school?
To make your point re JT3 needing to prove something this year you selectively choose one specific result during three seasons. People have argued that (1) the years you chose are unfair and (2) you measure of success is too pointed. You agreed on both. What is left of your argument?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
LAWYERED
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i still kinda like you. MWS and jahidilikespie do not however
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't believe that Jahidilikespie doesn't like me
We are best friends
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
MWS on the other hand
We need to go to couples therapy
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello
How are you
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
people fail to realize how hard it is to succeed at the highest level especially in the big east. They also fail to realize that the coach can’t control everything. Looking at last year we were a basket away from winning the big east tournament. We were a pretty good team that fell short one too many times taking other teams lightly and not committing to defense and rebounding. Coach can’t make them execute or defend once they get out there especially with so little depth. This year hopefully we’ll be able to bench a player if he’s not playing defense, because there will be a capable replacement for him.
APOLOGIST
you are on JGD’s list which is full of fans who defend JT3 but no coaches who could replace him.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't that about the same argument as USA Soccer?
They were a pretty good team but got behind early and couldn’t score enough?
There’s a chicken and the egg question as to whether the coach or players are responsible for the success but regardless, last year’s team underachieved. There were plenty of factors and we can easily point to youth, leadership, and camaraderie but it’s on the head coach to take control and lead the team through it.
Hire’s list above really highlights the key to winning basketball games these days: get the best players. There’s no question that the guys above are outstanding coaches (as is JT3), it’s just that they all look a hell of a lot better when they have guys who can score at any time and carry the team.
JT3 has a lot on his plate this year, and the key is going to be how Wright (likely to be the team’s best player) can run the team. If he shows leadership, we’ll all be talking about how great a coach JT3 is and if the team starts bickering again, we’ll complain that JT3 didn’t do enough to bring them together.
by itsallthatmatters on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
you had to bring up USA Soccer
Can we just face it that the soccer team really wasn’t as good as we thought?
Yes, that goal was a cool moment, but this team given the draw was a major disappointment, and the disappointment was only masked by the fact that no one cares about soccer in America.
We tied England (which we then realized sucked), tied SLOVENIA, needed extra time to beat ALGERIA, and then lost to GHANA.
Come on.
Casually.
***
As far as I’m concerned, we beat Slovenia.
by Vee Sanford's Next-door Neighbor on Jul 22, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think way too much emphasis is placed on NCAA success when it’s a single game elimination tournament where anything can happen. Regular season counts just as much.
Last year we were 23-11. That’s a good year.
No one should ever mention 2008 as a bad year. Who gives a fuck that we lost to Davidson. They were a good team. No shame in that. We were also the Big East regular season champions and won 28 games. That is not a season you get to point to and say JTIII did not do a good job.
That's fair
But then you can’t point at the 2010 BET as a measure of success because that also is a single elimination tournament.
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
true but if you’re going to use one you have to use both.
You could also look at the fact that if we had been able to not have lapses we very easily could’ve finished 2nd in the big east we were only 3 games difference between 8th place and 2nd place.
by hoyasincebirth on Jul 22, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Lala land
We’ll have more depth and we’ll be more experienced," Thompson III said. “I think, with our flexibility, we can play big or small, whichever gives us the best chance to win.”
What world is this guy living in? How will we be able to play big? We have Julian, who was improved last year, but also pretty inconsistent, especially as a defensive presence (what we needed him most for), we have Benimon, who is a solid extra body type guy, not a starter. We have Henry who is a bust, too lazy to sharpen his athletic talent defensively or offensively. Lubick, who will be good, but Kenner league showed he is still wet-behind-the ears, Moses, who is completely raw in the near term and won’t be dependable on offense and will make a lot of mistakes on defense.
How is a rotating a bunch of mediocre big men (especially mediocre on offense) allow us to play big?
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions
JT3 KNOWS ALL AND SHOULD NOT BE QUESTIONED
I'm not actually Jeff Green's Dad
by Jeff Green's Dad on Jul 22, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I've said it before and (I'm sure) I'll say it again
Georgetown is going to get absolutely destroyed on the glass this year.
Casually.
Nate is a beast on the boards and Julian and Henry and not bad either. Moses is pretty darn good too.
by hoyasincebirth on Jul 22, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
nate is unlike any player we have had before
he is a big body in the paint. rebound first
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
and by "had before" i meant under jt3
big john had plenty of them
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
jt3 also knows the development of henry, julian, moses and nate better than any of us do
Why have Villanofun when you can have Georgetown?
by ChrisWright'sSleeve on Jul 22, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
debateable...
the GLOBAL PHENOMENON has been ahead of the curve at every step, most notably in accurately assessing Nikita’s “talents”
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
dont forget good ol' jeremiah too
Why have Villanofun when you can have Georgetown?
by ChrisWright'sSleeve on Jul 22, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
1) We have so much offensive talent in our guards we don’t need much offense from our bigs, just defense and rebounding.
2) My idea of playing big is having Hollis at the 3 with 2 other bigs. I think we can pull that off easily
by hoyasincebirth on Jul 22, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
but...
… will clark accept a role as 6th man after starting last year?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Jessie Sapp fistfights sure to ensue...
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
and who would be the other big?
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
1) Patrick ewing jr. excepted the 6th man role. I don’t know clark so who knows, but I think it would be best for the team.
2) the second big would either be henry or Nate alongside Julian.
by hoyasincebirth on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Georgetown is mediocre....always has been...always will be.
This is a great conversation, but lets face it, GU hoops is mediocre…always has been always will be. JTIII is a fine coach. The players are fine players. The campus is a fine campus. But outside of the Ewing years, GU Hoops has never been dominant….and I have been watching GU hoops since the days of John Duren. Sure Jeff Green’s team had a good run. No question.
But Dikembe never won a championship, Alonzo never won a championship, Iverson certainly didn’t, Victor Page never won a championship. Really the Hoya Legacy is a nice niche legacy that rests in Ewing’s career. All other GU hoop is good, not great. Moments of excitement and some nice loyal fans, but by and large a mediocre following for a mediocre program.
They win some games, they lose some games. They have some good runs in the BE and once, maybe twice a generation they go to the sweet 16 or maybe the final four. GU hoops is a nice middle of the road basketball team. Always has been, always will be.
And, I would argue, that is the way that it should be. Kentucky fans, for example, are unrealistic expecting final fours every year and firing coaches that don’t win national titles.
The Hoyas should hope to compete in most games, be a tough out in the BE tournament, and a usual invite to the NCAA. It would be nice if every 5 or 10 years the Hoyas win the BE tourney and make it to the final four. At the end of the day, I might hope for one more NCAA Hoop Tourney Championship in my lifetime, but I won’t hold my breath.
very debateable
i would not call the team “mediocre” rather just not quite at the level of programs like ucla and kansas (kentucky does not count as they have probably accumulated more violations than the entire league combined). georgetown has just had a few mediocre years and has yet to live up to the expectations of a “powerhouse” or rather a prominent program. a program that i see as mediocre is more of the likes of washington university.
Why have Villanofun when you can have Georgetown?
by ChrisWright'sSleeve on Jul 23, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Excellent dose of practical cynicism
To combat Hire Escherick’s mind numbing homerism.
“Mediocre” is a bit harsh though.
by itsallthatmatters on Jul 23, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I would think 88hoya is more in line with my expectations
than JGD’s “JT3 needs to prove something this year or else”
Mediocre is very harsh. A team that goes to a Final Four every 5-10 years is not mediocre. A team that goes to the NCAA Tournament every 5-10 years is. Seton Hall is mediocre. Providence is mediocre. Gerogetown contends for the top of the Big East every year.
Mediocre teams are not ranked every year.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Jul 23, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Mediocre is way off base
I finally went annd bookmarked this article since I have to reference it so often for people who don’t know what they’re talking about.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3501739
We’re the 10th best program of all time since the 1984-1985 season. So that’s not even including our national championship.
This is what I mean when I say people focus too much on just NCAA tournament success. Regular season championships, Conference tournament championships. These things count a lot 2. JTIII has 2 regular season championships, 1 tournament championship, a final 4, and a sweet 16. If they went back 1 year we’d be even higher on the list at least 8th.
Another interesting tidbit from this article last year was only the second time we’ve ever lost in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament.
by hoyasincebirth on Jul 23, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Strong article but
its stats seem a bit off, particularly because it gets UNLV at #8, noting that it had 0 NCAA Tourney wins for 15 straight years. In-season wins are nice but legacies get established in the postseason. #10 sounds a little high to me for Georgetown but they are constant presence in the Top 20 and clearly better than mediocre.
In any event, Jeff Green’s Dad is a lunatic and should be institutionalized.
by itsallthatmatters on Jul 23, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah i’m not saying the list is entirely acurate, but the point is we’re miles away from mediocre.
We’re at least in the top 25 no matter how you slice it. I would think you’d at least have to be below the top 50 to be considered mediocre.
by hoyasincebirth on Jul 23, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
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