Casual Hoya: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Who is available around MLB?

Back to the Future: Where Would Georgetown Be Without Transfers or Defections?

With one game left to go in the regular season, Georgetown sits at 19-9 overall and 9-8 in the Big East. We all know by now that Georgetown's fate in March rests with the Big Three of Greg Monroe, Austin Freeman, and Chris Wright.  Depth, clearly, has been a serious issue.  With a few days to go until the Cincinnati Bearcats invade Verizon, let's take a look to see what this Georgetown team would look like if DaJuan Summers didn't leave for the NBA, and both Vernon Macklin and Jeremiah Rivers elected not to leave the Hilltop for finer pastures in Gainesville and Bloomington, respectively.  And yes, we know this is FantasyLand.  But frankly, we don't care.

Backfuture_l_medium

Not even the Libyans could have prevented DaJuan Summers from leaving Georgetown

 

So, had everyone stayed, what would the team look like now?

"Back to the Future" after The Jump:

Star-divide

Summers in the NBA:

DaJuan Summers isn't doing much for the Pistons, having played in 24 games and getting about 8 minutes per while putting up 2.5 points per game. And though we cringed often as he fired threes aimlessly with 30 seconds left on the shot clock, he led the team in scoring with 13.6 points per game and pulled down 4 boards per game last year.  Actually, I wouldn't say he pulled down anything - it's more like the ball found him wherever he happened to be standing.

The Transfers at Florida and Indiana:

Vernon Macklin has actually put up some solid numbers this year for the Florida Gators, getting about 10 points and 5 boards per game after sitting out his transfer year (2008 stats as a Hoya: 3.4pts. and 2.1rebs.)

Finally, everyone's favorite, Jeremiah Rivers.  Shockingly, the Greatest of All-Time is seeing major burn at Indiana but putting up only 6 points, 5 boards, and 4 assists as its point guard (though his hair is a major selling point).  Before his transfer, he put up 2.5, 2.4, and 1 as a backup at Georgetown.  Rivers was thought of as a defensive stopper, but even that label has to be questioned.

Shaking Up The Current Lineup:

So here's how things would likely shake out had all stuck around (with the final three being projected bench players):

Current Team Without Transfers
Chris Wright Chris Wright
Jason Clark Austin Freeman
Austin Freeman DaJuan Summers
Julian Vaughn Vernon Macklin
Greg Monroe Greg Monroe
Hollis Thompson Jason Clark
Jerrelle Benimon Julian Vaughn
Henry Sims Hollis Thompson

There's no doubt that there would have been more talent on the team had Summers and Macklin not transferred. The question is really whether there would be enough shots to go around to keep everyone happy. Wright, Freeman, and Monroe would certainly be in double digits but would Macklin have accepted a role similar to what Vaughn is playing this year? How about Summers?

Rivers made the right decision in transferring because his days were numbered as 1) he sucked, and 2) Jason Clark continued to improve. Summers also made the right decision for himself as the team concept wasn't one that he was buying into particularly well and things weren't going to get any better as Monroe continued to assert himself.  Macklin's the one who I really question - he was making small strides over his time at Georgetown but was primed to really step in.  As well as Vaughn's been playing this year, two years of Macklin and Monroe could have been a really impressive lineup, particularly with Vaughn subbing for each of them as needed.  That would have been a monster frontcourt.

Finally, how would those 3 sticking around have impacted development?  As I noted above, Clark would have pushed Rivers out of the way eventually but I doubt that he would have cracked the starting 5 - it's difficult to predict how that would have sat with him but I'd guess he would have made the most of his role as a 6th man.  For Hollis, this would have been a really good year to develop physically.  Sure, he would have lost out on game time but taking a freshman year and getting some spot minutes would have served him well as he developed his body in the weight room.  Again, Vaughn is the toughest to project because based on the strides he's made this year.  He would likely have competed with Macklin for time - and that could have dragged either of them into a funk, particularly Macklin who with his McDonald's All-American pedigree would have his mind on the League.  Lastly, this would have been a rough go on Henry Sims because he would be even further down the depth chart - maybe he would be given a redshirt year but I suspect that a transfer would have been a possibility (if it isn't now).

So would the team be better?  Probably not.  Losing became a mindset last year and Summers simply wasn't the winner or leader that we hoped for.  It seemed that once things got tough, it was all too easy for him to cave - not what they would have needed this year from the lone senior leader.  And with Summers and Macklin both thinking about the NBA, I'm thinking there would have been plenty more reckless shots from the 2 of them (potential upside in that Macklin's hook shot was legendary in its horrificness).  With the two of them gunning for their own stats, this likely would have led Chris Wright to join the party and start chucking as well.  It's not saying much, but losing Summers was the proverbial addition by subtraction (and hopefully our friends at Hoya Prospectus can analyze that statement to see if there's any truth to it).

Rather than getting crazy, we left Nikita off this list though we really admire his Georgetown headshot on the Wake Forest site.  And rest assured, we will not be projecting how the team would have done had Nikita or even the woeful Omar Wattad had stuck around.

But rather than make any specific projections ourselves, we'll leave it to you to chime in below. 

Would Georgetown have been better this year with Summers, Macklin, and Rivers?

Poll
How would Georgetown have fared up to this point in the season with DaJuan Summers, Vernon Macklin, and Jeremiah Rivers still on the team?
Better than 19-9 (9-8)
198 votes
Worse than 19-9 (9-8)
89 votes

287 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 35 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

OF the three

would have been nice to have rivers of all of them. At least he didn’t seem like a douche in the locker room. Summers

High fives only on three pointers.

by TheYellofAllYells on Mar 3, 2010 9:24 AM EST reply actions  

sorry pressed post too soon

…Summers was over being in college clearly and didn’t really help us down the stretch last year and Macklin was a McDonalds All American and clearly wouldn’t have been too happy playing second fiddle to Monroe. I do miss Macklin’s athleticism but he was never really a good fit for JT3’s system.

High fives only on three pointers.

by TheYellofAllYells on Mar 3, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Macklin

is the one guy that could have added something. By now he would have been a senior and presumably would have understood his worth and limitations. He’s a clear upgrade over Vaughn. But more so than any of these guys Chris Braswell could have been huge for us. 9ppg, 8rpg, and 7 double-doubles for a respectable Charlotte team in a more than respectable A-10.

by chicken madness on Mar 3, 2010 9:46 AM EST reply actions  

If Macklin stayed, we wouldn't have gotten Vaughn

who only committed to Georgetown as a transfer after Macklin announced he was leaving. I doubt Vaughn would have gone to Georgetown in that situation, instead opting for another local school. I have no evidence, but I believe it to be true.

If that is true, then the depth problem would be the same. Until Feb. it looked like Vaughn was actually better than Macklin. I still believe he’s playing hurt. I agree with chicken madness that Braswell would have helped more.

Also, consider how painful Macklin’s FT were to watch. Even with a year sitting out as a transfer, he’s only hitting 59%. OUCH.

by thejerseytornado on Mar 3, 2010 9:52 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Also, consider how lucky we are that Vaughn was able to play right away instead of sitting out a year. He’d be going through a lot of the struggles he had last year this year. While he hasn’t played as well lately, we’ve still mostly gotten what we’ve needed from him overall. I hope that he makes some more noise down the stretch, especially with crashing the glass.

Some of these hypotheticals are tough to imagine, but I think we miss Macklin the most. Like jersey, I don’t think it would have helped depth, but I think Macklin is a slight upgrade over Vaughn right now. We also would have four McDonald’s All-Americans in the starting lineup. Doesn’t mean much other than hype, but Christ. I do like how Vaughn has played overall, but lately he hasn’t done as much, so I hope he can step it up.

Rivers staying probably could have helped depth, as he probably could have spelled Clark some. But as weird as it is to say it, since he was our leading scorer last year, I think we miss Summers the least. He has some great moments on the Hilltop, but was just not a good team guy, nor a leader.

I’m holding out hope that everybody comes back next year, because I do think these transfers and early exits have taken a toll on us the last couple years, especially when it comes to depth, experience, and leadership. We would be absolutely sick next year, with Starks and Lubick coming in to add depth, and everyone else with another year of experience under their belts. The players I’m worried about the most are Monroe (NBA) and Sims (transfer). Probably unrealistic given the past few years, but I really hope both stay. I think we could be a true national championship contender.

But season’s ain’t over. Let’s beat Cincy and see how we do in the Big East and NCAA Tournament.

P.S. I’d take Macklin’s 59% FT shooting. He was 25% from the field in his sophomore year. That’s real OUCH.

by CAHoya07 on Mar 3, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Vaughn is only shooting 56%

As weird as it sound, Macklin would be an upgrade from the charity stripe

Manley Field House is officially closed!

by HoyaParanoia85 on Mar 3, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

take his crap first 10 FTA

and he’s shot 67% since then. Macklin’s reached his upper limit of 59%. Vaughn hasn’t.

by thejerseytornado on Mar 3, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

real question

isn’t better or worse, that’s too subjective. real question is why did they leave? is there something about the program that failed them or did they fail the program. A couple of guys every year tranfering is a red flag at other schools. Why not at Georgetown?

by sleepyhoya on Mar 3, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions  

they were all recruited over

jt’3s recruiting classes have consistently improved – need to step on some heads to get to the top

Good talk.

by Hire Esherick on Mar 3, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

In fantasy land...

What really hurt us is not finding a way to keep Wallace around for 8 years like Scottie Reynolds.

Imagine where Wallace could fit into our current team. It was a disaster every game that he couldn’t break the press but I would trade that any day for a sure passer who could drain freethrows down the line.

Making my all decade team:
Wallace
Freeman
Green
Monroe
Hibbert
Bench: Summers, Ewing, Wright, Cook, and Bowman

Section 101.

by RileysDressLikeAHoyaJersey on Mar 3, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions  

Great HoyaTalk Post!

That team would be awesome because they would travel to games in a hovercraft powered by the strength of this blog. Everyone who came to home games would get an unlimited supply of starbursts and after they won the NCAA national championship, Richard Branson would build them a castle on Mars where they would live the rest of their days as a Rolling Stone cover band.

by lordnick on Mar 3, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Reality is too painful to think about so I need to hang onto fantasy and dreams.

And, unlimited starbucks, beer, and snacks is the real world….called box seats.

Section 101.

by RileysDressLikeAHoyaJersey on Mar 3, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Starburst hierarchy

Red
Pink
Yellow
Orange

These facts are beyond dispute

by itsallthatmatters on Mar 3, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

No way

Yellow is at the bottom

Manley Field House is officially closed!

by HoyaParanoia85 on Mar 3, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

and pink is better than red

I can have oodles of charm when I want to.

by aja32 on Mar 3, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

liar

I can have oodles of charm when I want to.

by aja32 on Mar 3, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

You Failures

Itsallthatmatters had it 100% right the first time.

by eatthatbox09 on Mar 3, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

It depends...

I mean, if we’re saying they stay, are we saying they don’t have the problems that made them leave? If Summers wanted to be a solid contributor the way he was before his last year, then sure. If Macklin and Rivers wanted to buy into the system instead of transferring out of it and, in the latter case, ripping on it, sure.

I’m not trying to light them up, but I just feel like the “would we be better?” argument is more about their temperaments than merely their presence.

Why so Syracuse?

by HoyaJoker07 on Mar 3, 2010 9:56 AM EST reply actions  

DaJuan Summers would have made an excellent 6th man

in make-believe-land where Summers would somehow have accepted such a demotion

It's not me, It's you

by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Mar 3, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

Truth

But to get that kind of progress, JTIII would probably have had to lock him in a dark room all summer with a Celine Dion CD (and a bag of orange-only starbursts). And I imagine that violates some kind of NCAA rule/Georgetown protocol/JTIII’s scruples. Bah.

by eatthatbox09 on Mar 3, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

more reality

I think its best if we accept that greg isn’t coming back next year. No, I have no inside info and I would be deliriously happy if he did, but its not gonna happen.

by iheartgregmonroe on Mar 3, 2010 2:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I'm feeling this too

He looks increasingly frustrated.

I can have oodles of charm when I want to.

by aja32 on Mar 3, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

his game has come so far since last year

he is on the cusp of dominating games offensively, if he had another year I see him dominating many games and the Hoyas going deep into the tourney.

Ok, I’m done being delusional.

It's not me, It's you

by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Mar 3, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

oh i agree

i didn’t say i want him to go, or even that he should. man i hope he stays…

I can have oodles of charm when I want to.

by aja32 on Mar 3, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

True

he prolly leaves.

But, if he stayed, man! One more year to develop his defensive skills (he isn’t yet a dominating inside presence), one more year to polish his offensive skills (he would definitely be dominant in the league).

Hoyas would be a Final Four team.

It's not me, It's you

by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Mar 3, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

always plenty to work on

of course I think he (anyone really) should stay in school and get better, as opposed to being in the nba but sitting on the bench. I haven’t looked lately, but I don’t think Dajuan’s playing much. I don’t see how you pass up being a lottery pick two years in a row though. smh.

by iheartgregmonroe on Mar 3, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

is there a cat in hells chance

that he is such a good guy (and by all accounts he does seem to be a pretty first-rate human being – the NOLA/Katrina stories speak well of his character) that he would actually want to stick around and get his degree? That the achievement of graduating from GU would be enough for him to delay the bucks?

OK, I will now exit the ocean of delusion. Still…two more years…sheesh…

I’d better enjoy the last time I’ll ever see him in-person in a Hoyas uniform on Saturday.

KBE

by SirHoya on Mar 3, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

more than other years

Just doesn’t make economic sense for any likely lottery pick to stay in school. Good chance there’s a lockout in the NBA in ‘11, which means the rookie salary structure will most likely change for the worse. Maybe so many guys come out this year that Monroe gets pushed out of the lottery…but barring that I don’t see him returning.

by chicken madness on Mar 3, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

No need to panic

I pledge not to leave for the NBA this year.

by Ryan Dougherty on Mar 3, 2010 4:47 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Your No Holds Barred Forum for Hard-Core Hoya Hoops
Start posting about the Hoyas »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

SBNation.com Recent Stories

INDIANAPOLIS - APRIL 02:  A detail picture of the basketballs as the Duke Blue Devils during practice prior to the 2010 Final Four of the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament at Lucas Oil Stadium on April 2, 2010 in Indianapolis, Indiana.  (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images) +10 updates

NCAA Announces Plan For 'First Four,' Featuring Field Of 68 Play-In Games

Villanova guard Scottie Reynolds, top, is fouled by Drexel guard Jamie Harris (12) in the first half of a men's NCAA  college basketball game Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2009, in Villanova, Pa. (AP Photo/Michael Perez)

Two Drexel Basketball Players Arrested, Accused Of Armed Robbery

+1 updates

UNLV's Tre'Von Willis Arrested On Multiple Charges

More from SBNation.com >


John Thompson II

Bulldog_logo_small CasualHoya

Hero_small Hire Esherick

John Thompson III

Boot_small itsallthatmatters

Jg_small Jeff Green's Dad

Nikita Mescheriakov

Joe_small lordnick