The State Of The Hoyas: Thompson vs. Thompson
This is the first in a weekly special exclusive VIP guest column series entitled The State Of The Hoyas. Enjoy.
Monday night’s home opener was fun to watch and generally encouraging that there is life after Monroe. Of course, I was equally optimistic last year by fun to watch and encouraging games like Butler, Washington, UCONN and Duke, though, before Old Dominion, USF, Rutgers added up to Ohio. This begs the question - what needs to be different this year to translate promise into greatness?
Watching this team Monday reminds me this is really JT III’s program now. His first big recruits are seniors and the entire look of the team reflects his philosophy, performance and personality. And no matter where his imposing Dad sits, this is not his father’s team.
In fact father and son could not be further apart in how they approach basketball philosophy – everything from offensive schemes to on the bench demeanor. To be sure they both played by the rules, demanded excellence and graduated kids from the program. But that, and the same last name, is about where the comparison ends.
More Thompson v. Thompson After The Jump:
We’ve had some father-son coaching pairs, Suttons, Knights and Musselmans, where each son always adopted and built on his Dad’s coaching philosophy. You don’t see Pat Knight playing a lot of zone at Texas Tech for example. And to wander a bit from basketball, the only person more brash and aggressive than current Jet’s coach Rex Ryan is his Dad Buddy Ryan.
But the Thompsons have very little in common besides being good coaches. Where JTIII is urbane and smooth and careful with his words, his Dad was the proverbial bull in the china shop. In both personality and coaching style, they're more like the odd couple than father son.
JTT III has a system that reflects his style. This week we’re all caught up in the Hoyas being a guard oriented offense. That misses the point. His system values mobility, movement and judgment over size and athleticism. It’s careful, deliberate and usually smart basketball. It was built for teams that lack great athleticism and has been adapted by JTIII to accommodate some very good athletes.
John Thompson Jr’s teams were built on something entirely different. Rather than precision and balance, Jr’s teams were built on power, speed, physicality and, most of all, intimidation.
The first game I ever saw Georgetown play was in the old Holiday Festival at Madison Square Garden in 1977. This was the premiere tournament in the country before conference play and Georgetown was facing Holy Cross and their All American Ronnie Perry. Georgetown was led by point guard John Duren and power forward Craig Shelton, both of whom looked like they could play D1 football. Duren was known for his half court bounce passes, don’t try it – trust me you can’t do it, and Shelton earned his nickname "Sky" every night.
The Hoyas didn’t just beat the Crusaders that night in a major upset, they sucked the life out of them. Holy Cross looked and played scared most of the night – they played like they were seeing something they’d never seen before, and they hadn’t. Intimidation was and would always be a central part of Thompson’s coaching style. He intimidated the referees, the opposing coach, the opposing crowd and even some of the recruits he was trying to lure to Georgetown.
And he successfully recruited players who took that intimidating approach to the court. We all know the more famous gladiators, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo and Iverson. But it was names like Gene Smith, Ed Spriggs,(who was working as a mailman when he was recruited) Ralph Dalton and Michael Graham that gave the team its personality. Thompson wanted players who were athletic, tough and not afraid to fight. He wanted kids who played defense first and valued rebounds, blocked shots and steals above points. If you could shoot, that was fine too, but that was a bonus.
Don’t get me wrong, there was a lot of talent on the teams Thompson coached. But what made them winners, and national champions, was the intimidating ferociousness that was aptly branded as Hoya Paranoia. These teams gave forty minutes of hell real meaning. They had an attitude that defeated many teams before the game even started.
A couple of examples. Patrick Ewing spent the first half of his first season getting into a fight almost every game. He understood that he needed to send a message to all of college basketball that he would not be backed down. Don’t forget the beginning of the 1982 finals where Ewing goal-tended the first 3 or 4 shots taken by North Carolina. Taken on talent alone, the Hoyas were not a match with Jordan, Worthy and Sam Perkins. But they took it down to the wire because of their toughness.
And Michael Graham. He just looked scary and played even tougher. Not a great basketball player by any stretch of the imagination. But his presence in 1984 made the difference and his absence in 1985 did also.
And don’t forget the towering presence of Thompson roaming the sidelines engaging in a loud and profane dialogue with almost everyone in the building. If you thing opposing coaches and teams were not intimidated you’d be wrong.
Georgetown’s national championship was technically won on a Monday night in Seattle against Houston and Hakeem. They really won that championship playing an extremely talented Kentucky team on Saturday. During the second half, Georgetown held a great team scoreless for 9:45. Not a single point in almost ten minutes in the national semifinals. It wasn’t just bad shooting. If you ever get a chance to see a tape of the game, look at the faces of the Kentucky players walking off the court. They were totally demoralized, intimidated and stunned by the end of the second half – a team with several first round NBA picks.
So what has this got to do with this year’s team beyond an interesting family comparison? Does it mean the cerebral, deliberate Hoyas squad can’t be national champions? Not at all. Does it mean we need to get more intimidating, tough and arrogant? That wouldn’t be so bad.
Teams that intimidate physically and mentally almost always win at the college level. There are a lot of ways to do it. Coach K is the best there is right now. He intimidates the referees, opposing players and coaches and even the NCAA –just look at his bracket last year.
The single best example of the importance of attitude and toughness is Duke versus UNLV. In the 1990 finals, UNLV led by Larry Johnson, Stacey Augmon and Andersen Hunt blew Duke out by 30 points. They didn’t just beat them, they destroyed them mentally and physically like a Thompson team of the 80’s.
That was more than Coach K could take. The next year the same two teams played with the same rosters and Duke won. Coach K changed the makeup of the team without making a single roster change or bringing in a new five star recruit. It became Christian Laettner’s team, they were tough, chippy and never backed down. They didn’t become more skilled, developed more speed or jumping ability, they just got a lot tougher. As much as we all hate both of them, you can’t deny the success.
Georgetown has the talent to go a long way in 2011. To go all the way however, I think they’ll need to do more intimidating and less back cuts. You don’t have to be 6’10", profane and scary to intimidate like Thompson Jr. did. You do need to strike fear into the other team. So it will be fun to watch this year if both JTIII and Austin and Chris can channel some of Dad and the spirit of Michael Graham. They don’t need to change offensive philosophy or personnel.
Remember what Duke did, they changed their mindset, they got tougher, they became even more arrogant and intimidating than Tarkanian’s Running Rebels.
We know that we have that in us, as evidenced by the Duke game last year. But can we sustain that over a whole season?
They’ll be fun to watch no matter what this year. They are talented, seasoned and (Hoya Talk alert) seem like really good young men. How far they’ll go I think will be directly related to how aggressive, tough and yes, arrogant, both team and coach can become.
Stay Casual, my friends.
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Duke added Grant Hill from 1990 to 1991
Completely agree with the crux of the article though
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
Obligatory "JGD loves Duke" comment
JGD loved Duke from 1990 to 1991.
Documented.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Nov 17, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
I do not hide from my former allegiances
As much as they embarrass me.
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
I think Chris has it in him
Loved the way he reacted to those 2 threes he hit at ODU, basically saying “yeah, I made them, and I expect to fuckin make em”
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
Intimidation factor
Totally agree with this assessment. Thanks for the excellent walk down memory lane.
I’d like to see less finesse and more aggression out of these guys as well, and I think Lubick and Benimon (and Vaughn once healthy) should provide it.
Casually.
Excellent column
Clark, Wright, and Freeman clearly have the intensity but through the first two games, we’ve seen a team far too willing to simply chuck a 3. So long as we’re shooting well, this is an outstanding gameplan but I can’t imagine it will work for the long haul.
It’s doubtful that this team will get much scoring in the paint but by putting in the press, JT3 has given them a chance to score easy baskets.
by itsallthatmatters on Nov 17, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions
Agreed
Austin and Chris also get to the rack with ease, we can get easy buckets that way as well.
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
they are "chucking" open threes though
i dont see a problem with it. they are taking what is given to them.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Nov 17, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Threes
I didn’t see the ODU game, but the threes they were taking in the Tulane game did not seem to be of the chucking variety.
Now Costanza, that man is a chucker.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Nov 17, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Fair points
But I don’t think the point of the game is simply to take the shot that’s open. Firing up an uncontested three can after moving the ball and attacking gaps can be an excellent shot, I’m not convinced that taking the same three after one or two passes is the key to success.
Freeman seems to get this at times and attacks the basket but against Tulane, more than half the shots were 3s and we got to the line only 10 times.
Successful thus far but it’ll be tough to consistently win with that breakdown.
by itsallthatmatters on Nov 17, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
yeah and i cant type
because that was meant to say “aren’t chucking”
agree re: freeman – he needs to get to the line more, and not to complete 4 point plays.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Nov 17, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
I want us to attack more. But, so far at least, I don’t think we’ve had a chucking problem. The shots we were taking against Tulane were usually the right shots. The last thing I want is the team to get complacent and resort to chucking threes when they are not the right shots.
I think having a team built on guard play is relatively foreign to a lot of us (we are Georgetown, after all) but I think with this group a lot of three pointers does not necessarily mean we’re taking bad shots or being lazy.
What are these assertions!?
by DHB Enterprises on Nov 17, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Gladiators
Not sure I would characterize any of our players at such to this point, though I suppose Wright tends to show more emotion than some of the others.
I want someone to get mean.
Casually.
I just like that Wright is the unquestioned leader this year
He’s fiery. Always felt that it was awkward between him and Monroe of who is voice of team. Austin just silently scored 20+ a game.
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
Yeah, Chris is leading the charge
While Austin’s sneaking in the back to flank the shit out of you.
These are all important military terms.
Why so Syracuse?
by HoyaJoker07 on Nov 17, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Cerebral seems like a nice way to say Doesn't Play Defense
If Georgetown plays decent defense, then critics will say that they’re intimidating again. That’s the long and short of it.
Also, I can see Lubick kicking an opponent in the head every game. It could turn out to be bigger than Eat That Box.
Great Column
I totally agree with the idea that toughness/intimidation can be developed independent of size and offensive strategy, but I have mixed feelings about this roster in that department.
To get another cross-reference in here, toughness in competitions like Mixed Martial Arts has way more to do with one’s ability to take strikes rather than one’s ability to strike really hard. On the basketball court, being scrappy and then looking confused/deflated when the opposing team grabs an offensive rebound and dunks it just makes you come off as looking, for lack of a better term, like a little bitch – which in my view is worse than being cerebral and detached. Frankly, I think if you look at the body language of some of our opponents, I think that’s how they view Georgetown. No big-time opponents like Pitt, WVU, and ‘Cuse, have been afraid of a slugfest with us since Hibbert and Ewing Jr. graduated, and no matter what we do in the run up to the BE season, that’s probably how we’ll continue to be viewed until we make a statement otherwise.
The old Thompson teams often played like they didn’t care when or how the other team scored, so long as they beat them up in the process. Getting scored on didn’t seem to phase them. Can our current roster can play like that? I’ll give you Wright, Benimon, and Clark, though in Wright’s case it doesn’t help if it turns him into a 5-second wrecking ball.
For all the premature adjectives we’ve attached to his game, Lubick does play hard, but that’s not the same as mean/intimidating. It’s way too early to make a call on him in that regard – let’s see when he commits his first hard foul. Hollis and Vaughn definitely seem to lack this toughness, as does Henry, though in his case I think there’s hope because it seems like he’s changed his approach somewhat. I don’t know what to make of Freeman in this department. He seems to play according to his mood, which ranges from focused to detached and back over the span of 10 minutes. He won’t get pushed around, but I haven’t seem him push back for an entire game.
We should be able to put a scare into every one of our potential opponents in Charleston. Let’s see if that happens.
well said
The next wave of real intimidation probably begins once Tyler Adams takes the court next year alongside Lubick, a meaner Henry, Hollis, and Clark.
Casually.
Meaner?
Hollis doesn’t have the ‘look’ (he’s more of a Austin Freeman model), Hank Sims seems too “comical” (Dave Chappelleesque). However regarding Adams and Trawick, yeah they may be able to add some pizzaz to the mix, and hopefully Hopkins can add some fire as well, but he has been labled as lackin’ any ‘life’ on the court!
To be continued……
trawick brings in the "philly toughness"
whatever that means.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Nov 17, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
pe jr had the intimidation factor
never afraid to get in someones face, or dunk on jared dudley.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Nov 17, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Lubick
did have a pretty hard foul on Monday – basically sat on the guy’s face. There is hope I think…
by loveshack99 on Nov 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of...
The Voice is holding a contest for best caption of the infamous face sitting, in case our resident Shakespeares want to jump in:
http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2010/11/17/basketball-caption-contest-no-prizes-just-lulz/
by RoyIsTheTallest on Nov 17, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Channeling lichoya
Good piece, sleepy. Now, I’ll channel lichoya (who probably doesn’t even know to get an acct at SBNation): BRINGONTHEMEANERY!!!
This piece nicely shows up the lazy "like father/like son" stuff that gets written about us
Though that meme has temporarily been replaced by “did you know they will miss Monroe/Big Man U goes small”…
Question about Moses to those who have seen him – while obviously a long-term project, does he show signs of being able to intimidate early? Or is he more like Roy, who took at least 2-3 years of cajoling before becoming a beast?
KBE
project
more athletic than roy at the start, but will take time to develop skills…caveat…only saw him play twice over the summer.
he aggressive on glass but passive in team game. looks unsure of how to use his abilities.
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Nov 17, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
agreed...
definitely aggressive and a big body to throw around but needs to build up his skill and confidence.
by loveshack99 on Nov 17, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Need to get away from the "project" label
Again, I also only saw him play twice over the summer, but in both cases, he looked more like freshman Roy than freshman/sophomore Henry. He seems to have the right aggressive instincts and the inherent athletic talent you’d expect from a guy his size.
The “project” aspect of him is in the X and Os world, where we consistently dinged Hank (and often Macklin and Benimonster) for not knowing where to stand in the zone and not knowing how tight to play his man without biting on a fake or drawing a foul. If you were playing playground ball, you’d want Moses on your team. If you’re playing Tulane-esque teams, you’d want him on your team.
by HoyaSmacksYa on Nov 17, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
These next 3 games Sims has a chance
To be more aggressive. Since Henry’s so underestimated, the door is open wider for him to turn heads.
by Tuomou's Tuomou on Nov 17, 2010 11:54 AM EST via mobile reply actions
yes
with vaughn out indefinitely the stage is his
Good talk.
Casual Hoya
by Hire Esherick on Nov 17, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
anyone have an update on vaughn?
All I heard is he was in the hospital without more details
... straight for a touchdown... I mean Rebound
by glackensghost on Nov 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Did not travel to Charleston
as reported by Hoya Hoop Club
by WarmupEwing on Nov 17, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
No details
On what’s wrong with him. Conspiracies abound…
by WarmupEwing on Nov 17, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
What are the conspiracies?
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
Curious too but it it worth speculating?
lets not write stuff here that is unfounded or could come back to haunt our team. We have lots of frenemies on the site who can use these rumors against us.
Lets give swagman our well wishes and hope he rejoins us soon.
(Too hoyatalk?)
... straight for a touchdown... I mean Rebound
by glackensghost on Nov 17, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
i would say that that is the very definition of hoyatalk
if anyone knows what is really going down please feel free to share or email us privately
this doesn’t sound like the flu
Casually.
Very good column...
The ability to intimidate is largely missing from the current game. Used to be a time, a glorious time, when a you could knock a driver on his ass and send a message that nothing will be easy. Now that is probably a flagrant foul. Very difficult in the current game to dominate physically.
JTIII’s approach to the game seems to show more of the influence Pete Carril has had than his father.
Opulence, I has it.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 17, 2010 12:15 PM EST reply actions
Agreed completely on the Carrill point
My handle used to be Jeff Green's Dad, but it was confusing and creepy, namely because I am not his dad. My new handle is JGD. I am trim and in charge.
Excellent column...
…I’m also glad that Casual Hoya got a mention in this morning’s Politico Playbook because of this article.
Any publicity is good publicity, right?
Hey! Hey! Hoya Saxa!
by Cubbies and Hoyas on Nov 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST reply actions
50-state grassroots Hoya fan strategy
…let’s go
Hey! Hey! Hoya Saxa!
by Cubbies and Hoyas on Nov 17, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions

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