#22 Butler Bulldogs (6-2) vs. #15 Georgetown Hoyas (6-0)
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 9:00 AM EST
in Game Threads
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PrintButler Bulldogs at Georgetown Hoyas, Dec 8, 2009 7:00 PM EST
TV: ESPN
Radio: ESPN 980
Online: Bulldogs vs Hoyas coverage
Time: 7:00 PM EST
Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, NY
View from the Student Section - A Perspective from Campus:
Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television. Please don't get embarrassed on national television.
View from the Court Side Seats - A Perspective from OldHoya:
Not much history for Gtown and Butler but there's one thing that makes this worthwhile and that's playing at MSG - an arena OldHoya has frequented for many years now. There have been tremendous highs, including Big East championships and miserable lows, including last year's St. John's debacles and Ray Allen's lucky shot that cost Georgetown a #1 seed in the Dance.
For those attending the game, OldHoya suggests you get a Garden hot dog.
View from the Sportsbook (via DonBest) - A Perspective from Vegas:
After avoiding having to post a line on the Hoyas ever since its less than impressive showing against Temple, Vegas has no choice but to throw something at us in this nationally televised affair in The World's Most Famous Arena.
Georgetown has been installed as a 3 point favorite, a line that will likely draw some fast money on the Hoyas because Joe Gambler will see Big East v. Horizon League and take the favored unbeaten nationally ranked powerhouse.
I still don't think Georgetown has shown enough yet to convince me that they can beat a disciplined top 25 team that makes its living from behind the arc. Butler's initial top 10 ranking may have been inflated, but their two losses have come at the hands of Minnesota and Clemson--not exactly cupcake city. If the Butler threes starting raining down and the Hoyas continue to struggle to impose its significant height advantage down low, this could be a squeaker. But on the MSG stage after the debacles against St. John's last season, I think this is going to be the game that Monroe begins to assert himself and removes the large postage stamp that's been on his forehead. Anything less than 18 and 9 will be an underwhelming performance.
I think the Hoyas will win this game, and the pick is Georgetown -3 in a low-scoring affair, something like 64-59. The over/under is 126 and I'm going UNDER. 3 points can be a sizable hurdle to cover especially since the game could in theory be over with the Hoyas up 5 with 5 seconds left and then some white devil from Indiana drains a meaningless 3 right into your eye and through your heart. That kind of stuff happens all the time.
Don't give up, don't ever give up.
On the season:
The Hoyas are currently 1-1 ATS (that's 'Against The Spread' for those just tuning in).
Georgetown is 1-0 ATS on the road and 0-1 ATS at Verizon.
Casual Hoya is 2-0 ATS, 1-1 in Over/Unders.
www.casualhoya.com : Where Your Money Stays And Plays.
Casually.
Check back throughout the day for updated media coverage and during the game for updates.
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From Indy Star
Gary Parrish, CBS Sportsline:
“The UCLA win doesn’t help at all, and the losses to Minnesota and Clemson look worse now than they did when they happened. So for the sake of the Top 25, absolutely, Butler needs to get past Georgetown and Ohio State, particularly now that Evan Turner is out. Anything less than that, and the Bulldogs won’t have much to fall back on when they inevitably lose a Horizon game or two, at which point the chances of an at-large bid will decrease, and the odds of getting a good seed will be small. So this is a huge week for Butler basketball. Fair or not, because of the league affiliation, now is when the Bulldogs must show the nation, the AP voters and the NCAA tournament selection committee what they are. We’ll see how it goes.”
Mike DeCourcy, The Sporting News columnist:
“I think these are very important games, and victories essentially could force the selection committee to treat the Bulldogs better than in 2008, for instance. But there’s a lot of achievement that would have to be stacked on top of those wins. Xavier hasn’t played well yet, but it may be just as talented as Ohio State and Georgetown. And Butler still has to dominate the Horizon League in order for seedings to be an issue. But these games are opportunities, and getting to play them without having to be the visiting team is rare for a team in Butler’s circumstance.”
Joe Lunardi, ESPN bracketologist:
“I think it’s premature to ‘seal the fate’ of any team at this point, Butler included. Certainly the Bulldogs could breathe a lot easier by winning at least half of their remaining non-conference games. However, suppose Minnesota (No. 56 today) and/or Clemson (No. 93) finish in the top third of their league(s)? Neither circumstance would be unexpected and either would turn Butler’s results against them into a ‘good loss.’ UAB (probably) and Xavier (for sure) are also likely to climb, so those are significant opportunities. And, last year, Butler played a 25-7 team in its Bracket Buster game (yet another opportunity for a legitimate ‘scalp’). This is the quantitative part of the process. Qualitatively, if Butler posts an expected record in league play (say, no more than one or two losses), I think the consensus will remain that this is an NCAA-level basketball team. Maybe not the 3-4 seed that many were assuming, but certainly well within the range for positive at-large consideration. My ‘tournament odds’ program doesn’t crank up until January, but this team is still far more likely to be in the field than not.”
New York blog 1: National stage for Butler
Good talk.
There are no Cinderallas
Worst. Commercial. Ever.
Georgetown Coach John Thompson III says he has seen too much of Butler on television and videotape to make the mistake of underestimating them. Moreover, Thompson argues that "mid-major" labels are overused and irrelevant.
"Maybe they’re still a [media] darling," Thompson said of Butler. "But I don’t think anybody looks at them as Cinderella. The world knows they’re a damn good basketball team and not the uninvited ones to the ball."
Good talk.
It was a cool looking commercial, it was just ironically tragic in the end.
the student is so negative( makes sense for the venue) who knew that someone so young could be so jaded. Of course i’m overly optimistic so maybe it’s just me.
imagine the nerve of georgetown
not making the NCAA tournament last year. if i was him, i would be jaded too. oh wait, i lived through esherick. nevermind,
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Optimism
Anyone that hangs their optimism on how this team did against AU, Lafayette, MSM, SavSt and/or Tulane might want buy themselves a rubber helmet.
My optimism will be based on tonight’s performance. This could either be an outstanding contest between 2 teams that pride themselves in their methodology and strong decision-making skills OR it will make the Temple game look like the work of Barishnikov.
Blip
Georgetown giving points
I to not make total bets so my vote for Georgetown and the Under is really just a bet on Georgetown. I think we will play well in MSG before the HORRIBLE CRUSHING LOSS on regional television Saturday.
PRACTICE
We sittin’ here,
I’m supposed to be a franchise player,
We’re in here talkin’ about practice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I&feature=related
Casually.
Butler and the OVER
Take Butler and the OVER. People are looking at the losses to Clemson and Minnesota, middle of the road ACC and Big Ten teams and are thinking that Butler’s a little overrated. However the wins against Davidson, UCLA, and Northwestern are certainly more than we have put together in the schedule this year. Like most, I’m happy if we go 1-1 SU in the next 2, but i think that record is slightly skewed to a loss on frontside tonight in MSG.
Butler 70 – Georgetown 62
by Takin' the Points on Dec 8, 2009 3:02 PM EST reply actions
early loss is good
happy with 1-1 as well.
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Butler-Georgetown is a game worth watching, though. It’ll be methodical and test your attention span nearly as much as the second game, but chances are you haven’t gotten to watch either of these teams yet this season.
Butler is, well, Butler: a team that doesn’t turn itself over a lot and remains incredibly successful in very close games. If you, as a team, find yourself in a 54-52 game with a minute to go against the Bulldogs, chances are you’ll be walking back to the locker room staring at the floor.
Three players you should already know about: Matt Howard, Shelvin Mack and Gordon Hayward. With their talent, a 6-2 record seems like an underachievement right now. No longer is this team considered the overwhelming favorite to win the Horizon. Beating Georgetown would go a long way and be a quintessential "Butler" kind of win to put on the resume.
An aside: Chris Mack is a coach worth following on Twitter.
Georgetown’s only other worthy opponent came in the ugliest national game of the season so far, that 46-45 win over Temple in the ESPN 24-hour fest.
The Hoyas can play Butler’s game, though. It’s deliberate and will never veer from the Princeton style of offense. Greg Monroe will be the best player on the floor but will have issues with Butler’s can’t-bully-me attitude down low. Monroe is averaging 14 and 10 so far this season; numbers that are a little lower than they should be, actually, but the Hoyas have four guys averaging double-digits in scoring. It’s not a deep team. That doesn’t matter much, as Georgetown won’t try and run itself to death.
A bit of a underwhelming showcase in MSG tonight
Good talk.
underwhelming
is never how you want your team described, no matter how accurate.
I am a cock-eyed optomist and say we manage to pull it out. We have had double digit leads in all of our games to date. Other than the fact that we have a soft, err unassertive, big man, we don’t rebound well, and we don’t have much depth, I think we are set for this game.
Yeah, I can't put my finger on it
But for some reason I think we win this game. I think we really struggle on Saturday, but some reason, I think we win tonight.
"It was almost like if Harry didn't call it, it wasn't real." - Jayson Stark
SB Nation
View from the Student Section
Seriously? Have students become this jaded since I graduated three years ago? I think we’ll do just fine tonight. If it’s the Temple game that the student’s referring to, sure it was ugly, but Temple is not a bad team, and we won the game. I’m looking for a quality win, not fearing embarrassment.
One bad season and this is what you get, I guess. I expect we’ll perform well tonight. Hope MSG is full of Hoya fans, because it always should be.
wanna see jaded?
read the first comment in The Voice’s failure to attribute quality analysis to the RIGHTFUL AUTHOR. dammit casual.
pasted below for your pleasure:
Verizon Center is Screwing the Students (I cleaned up the grammar):
The reason why they aren’t giving the Duke tickets to student fans immediately is because they want to maximize the profits from regular fans. So they are selling off 400 section seats on the day of the game once they know how many students actually picked up tickets at McDonough. In addition, for those students who don’t want to pay $125 to see games like American or teams in McDonough, the individual tickets for that game are not $5 (as they are for every other game). Unsurprisingly, the tickets are $40 per student section seat in the 400 level.
Don’t believe me?
http://guhoyas.cstv.com/tickets/baskbl-studentseason.html
"Single-game tickets are $5 each for assigned seats in the arena’s upper level. There is no limit to the number of single-game tickets a student can buy for these home games.
Student single-game tickets for the 1/30/10 home game vs. Duke will go on sale Monday, November 23 at 1:00 p.m at the McDonough Arena Box Office. Duke tickets are $40 each for assigned seats in the arena’s upper level. There is a limit of four (4) Duke tickets per student."
oh goodness NO! Georgetown is asking you to attend a SATURDAY GAME against american?!?! you are paying $125 for on-the-court seats to 16 homes games! and 6 of those 16 teams have been or are currently ranked, 4 weeks into the season.
eff em all
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
We win because...
Butler is not the team they were last year yet and neither are we.
Butler’s reputation is “a team that doesn’t turn itself over a lot and remains incredibly successful in very close games.” But they haven’t been this year they’re turning it over 13 times a game while only averaging 11 assists. And their 3pt shooting which is their main attack has not been good thus far. only 32% and the guy who shoots the second most is shooting under 30%.
Of course it’s possible the team returns to form. But i like our chances a lot. I’m optimistic because i have faith in JTIII and in our talent. Anyone who hasn’t been encouraged by Jason, Hollis, and Julian’s play haven’t been paying attention.
Will be there tonight
Thanks to the 2nd game there will be no booze cutoff… YEAH!!
by James Kannengieser on Dec 8, 2009 4:53 PM EST reply actions
out of all
The crackerjack analysis that I have read here, this is by far the best and most optimistic!
Blip
by JahidiLikesPie on Dec 8, 2009 5:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Courtside tweet
@GaryParrishCBS – CBSSports.com college basketball columnist: Courtside at The Garden for Butler-Georgetown. NYC fans are heckling the Hoyas during warmups, presumably b/c there’s nothing else to do.
Hopefully Nikita contributed by deflecting the criticism.
Documented
by itsallthatmatters on Dec 8, 2009 7:09 PM EST reply actions
clark = iverson?
no way jose
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
thanks
Cancer kills one American every minute of everyday.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 7:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
in other news
Old Dominion is really beating up on Mt St Marys. That should be a nice McDonough loss.
by lordnick on Dec 8, 2009 7:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
good sign
The kid who looks like Chris Dudley is in foul trouble early.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 7:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
if we combine monroe and vaughn
we might actually have a big man who could use both hands
Good talk.
come on
WHY IS VAUGHN SHOOTING 3s?
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 7:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
endowment
Incidentally, I am currently at the GU Hoyas ‘gamewatch’ event in New Orleans.
There is no one else here.
Nice abita amber, however.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 7:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
why not fall for another headfake?
Greg Monroe is not a smart defensive player.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 7:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i got an idea!
butler is in foul trouble down low. no big men on the bench
why not give the ball to monroe? all the time?
Good talk.
dickie V
He has now referred to ‘Big John’ at least 3 times.
Unclear how he knows the name of my drug dealer.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 7:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
vee
Vee’s presence in 1st half pretty much means that Nikita has been (hopefully) relegated to walk-on status.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
guess thats what happens
when you play against defenders 6 inches shorter than you
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
by far
Monroe’s most complete 1st half since last year’s UConn game.
Clark’s post feeds from top of key have been terrific.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions
pool
Some kids in here playing billiards.
Why play billiards? Is there anything more boring than billiards?
You think Tiger Woods gets to the back 9 playing billiards?
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Who the hell is on this?
Like three people? Didn’t we talk to each other enough at Camelot on Sunday? This is pointless.
this is very important
it’s not pointless! it’s excellent reading and very funny. keep it up!
by iheartgregmonroe on Dec 9, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
lottery
Now recalling I was at the 2007 Jimmy V and saw Rose, Mayo, and Beasley in that double-dip.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Greg looks older than their coach
And Pat Jr probably is older…
by SirHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
tempo
Slow down!
If Julian Vaughn never shoots again I would be fine with it.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
corner pocket
One of the kids playing billiards asked me if college hoops is played in halves or quarters.
Austin Freeman showing his range!
I won’t mention the last time the Hoyas held a double digit lead like this against an undersized squad like this because Butler doesn’t appear to have a Stephen Curry.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
corner pocket
One of the kids playing billiards asked me if college hoops is played in halves or quarters.
Austin Freeman showing his range!
I won’t mention the last time the Hoyas held a double digit lead like this against an undersized squad like this because Butler doesn’t appear to have a Stephen Curry.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
hollis for 3!
Pretty sure these kids playing billiards are underage and drinking on fake IDs.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
brooklyn
Monroe going to be real solid on Nets next year.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
nets take wall
Every team needs two point guards. Monroe goes to toronoto after Bosh leaves to whomever pays him the most. Monroe then changes his name to Lefty Bosh Jr. so the raptors can still sell leftover bosh jerseys.
Maybe to GSW where he and Anthony Randolph can both not play thanks to Nellie’s inspired desicion not play his best players.
by bunk moreland on Dec 8, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
IU HOOSIERS
Sitting and watching the hoyas. Rivers their only player not sitting with them.
Blip
by JahidiLikesPie on Dec 8, 2009 8:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
billiards kids
Now smoking Parliament Lights and cursing.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
falling apart
I guess refs want to have a say in the outcome.
Chris Wright is a bad point guard.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
NBA line
Why can’t Madison Square Garden have an alternate floor for college games like the Phone Booth? I’m tired of Clark taking pro-distance threes.
cause he is practicing for next year
Good talk.
by Hire Esherick on Dec 8, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
not to worry
I have the utmost confidence that this jt3 coached squad could not possibly blow another 17 point lead against a mid-major on a national stage.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
billiards kids update
Now discussing the ‘Twilight’ films.
What the hell is Team Edward?
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Butler board complaining about lack of foul calls
what game are they watching? seems more exciting than this one
Good talk.
ENOUGH
GET WRIGHT OUT OF THE DAMN GAME
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 8:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
refs
Have called fouls on every damn possession
Donaghy definitely has $$$ on this
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 9:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
toss-up
Would you rather have Chris Wright run this team or Jeremiah Rivers?
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 9:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
5-0
8 NOPD cops just sat down for dinner
Billairds kids now playing photo hunt.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 9:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
free throws
Seriously? Make the damn free throws!!!
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 9:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
nice win
Georgetown and the OVER
May stop predicting totals with all this ref uncertainty and blatant cheating resulting in cheap points.
Casually.
by CasualHoya on Dec 8, 2009 9:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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